#140 - Hospitality Meets Benoit Blin - The World Class Pastry Chef and TV Judge

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This week's episode is brought to you
in partnership with Zero Procure.

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The guys at Zero Procure have
walked a mile in the shoes of

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many of our listeners from the
world of hospitality.

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In fact, they have over 70 years of
collective experience of working in

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the hospitality industry and that
will probably be me getting into

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trouble for making them feel old.
I really recommend speaking to them

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to ensure you're working with the
right suppliers at the right price.

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There is zero cost involved.
Just click on their link in the

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show notes or visit their site
at zero procure.com/podcast.

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Welcome to Hospitality meets with
me Phil Street where each week we

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take a lighthearted look into the
stories and individuals that make up

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the wonderful world of hospitality.
Today's guest is Benoit Blin,

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Chef Patissier at Le Manoir aux
Quat'saisons and TV judge on

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Bake Off the Professionals.
Coming up on today's show, Benoit

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finds himself in a pastry nightmare.
I realized I didn't have the

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right ingredients.
I didn't have the right equipment.

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I didn't have the right recipe
with me.

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Phil alienates Benoit one sentence
when it comes to matters of pastry.

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I can't do it.
And Benoit tells us what not to do.

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If you ever get your shot on
Bake Off the Professionals.

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When Cherish and I see things like
that, we we boiling like.

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Like the kettle.
All that and so much more as we

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chat through Benoit's awesome
story and journey to date.

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Chatting to Benoit was a total joy
from start to finish.

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Not only has he got a cracking
career story to share,

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but there are some amazing lessons
throughout, especially if you're

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looking to learn ways to get the
most out of your own career.

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And some of them might even
surprise you.

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A huge thank you to Benoit for
giving us his time.

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As always, if you have the time,
please head over to your podcast app

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of choice and leave us a review.
It really does make a huge

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difference. Enjoy.
And a huge hospitality meets.

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Welcome to Benoit Blin.
Welcome to the show.

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Thank you very much. How are you?
Glad to be here. I'm very good.

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Very happy. I've got my mug of latte.
Coffee latte next to me.

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I'm happy. Very good. Yeah.
Well, I've come to Le Manoir to talk

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to you today because. Well, why not?
And also beautiful weather

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outside for Le Manoir.
Like it's it's the perfect Christmas

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scene. Oh, yeah, definitely.
The touch of frost is there this

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morning. Minus six on the road.
And it's nippy,

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to say the least. Nippy indeed.
I think I left the house.

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It was minus five this morning,
so yeah, they don't send the the

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gritter down my road, so you've
got to drive very carefully.

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Yeah,
but it's everywhere around here.

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Actually we are in the countryside
so it's a little bit icy. Yeah.

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But it's beautiful.
You look everywhere.

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It's all white. It's beautiful.
Just before Christmas.

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It's lovely. Yeah.
I can't imagine a better place to

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be at Christmas, to be honest.
We all the decorations up.

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I was talking to one of your
colleagues on the way in there

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as well about how you get choirs
in to to sing carols and stuff.

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And it's just like, Yeah, we've got
the Christmas carols at the minute.

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Every December, the first couple of
weeks of December, we've got a few

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nights where we've got the choirs
in the church next to Le Manoir

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and we've got 180 of our guests
coming to listen to it and then come

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for a lovely dinner after that.
So it keeps us busy and keeps us

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in the boot.
Yeah, until Christmas for sure.

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Absolutely. Yeah.
So for the few people out there

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who might not know who you are,
just tell us who you are and

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what it is that you do.
Well, I'm Benoit Blanc.

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I'm the chef Patissier pastry chef,
as you will say in English of Le

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Manoir aux Quat'saisons.
And I've been the chef patissier

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there for the past 28 years, working
very closely with Raymond Blanc.

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And yes, I'm looking after a team of
14 chefs and we do everything on

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the sweet side of Le Manoir from
the bread to the breakfast items

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Viennoiseries chocolate named plated
dessert and so on and so forth.

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Everything is made in-house.
There we go. That's the short story.

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Yeah, well, I mean, that sounds
like you're not busy at all then.

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There's not a lot to do.
No, there's not.

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14 chefs flat out basically the
place to barely shouts.

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In fact, the place never shuts down.
Really? Other than a week in January.

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So you have to cover every
single day, every single shift.

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So therefore you need a big team to
cover everything and do the work.

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Yeah. 14 God.
Well we'll get on to that

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because that's obviously makes
up part of your journey.

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But I really want to talk to you
today about how you got into

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hospitality in the first place
and just kind of talk us through

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your journey.
So how did it happen all the way

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back however many years ago it was?
I'll let you be the judge whether you

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tell the world how long ago it was.
Yeah, I mean, I always compare myself

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with obliques in some ways the little
French character cartoons because

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I fall into the pot when I was
little and it is virtually true.

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I lived in a street in France,
in Normandy, in the small town of

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and had two bakers on either side
of the street and both of them had

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sons which had the same age as me.
So naturally I was playing

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already in their kitchens.
You know, we call them Fernhill

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at the time they were bakers and
I grew up with the scent of

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flour and freshly baked goods.
And also I had a very sweet tooth

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since I was little and I always
loved to hang around these places

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around 4:00 to try to have the
chance of a little chocolate or

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croissant which could have been
hanging around because I loved it.

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And so from seven, eight years old,
I was already mixing up in this

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environment and I love food and
my phone is just ringing.

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That's not great, is it?
That's all right.

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Well, that will make the the intro.
I do a comedy intro if you

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haven't listened to any before.
So you wanted something funny.

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There it comes.
But yes, so I got into the the mix

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of the the baking world and also
one of my best friend's parents

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used to run the best hotel in town,
Hotel Saint-Pierre.

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And I used to play in those vast
banquet rooms, you know,

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And you had the whole room for
yourself with your friend.

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And the dad was the chef in the
kitchen and the mum was looking

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after the hotel.
So though my parents in the

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background were artisan,
but they were like more painters and

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decorators, so they were refurbishing
houses and things like that.

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The world of food is something
I've discovered with my friends

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and definitely something I loved
on the side of that.

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My mum had to cook on a regular
basis for my father's team.

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So sometimes you could be 16 at lunch
that she had to kind of deal with.

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So the cooking element never
scared me in some ways.

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I've always been embracing it
and I loved especially the sweet

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side of it.
So that's why I became a pastry chef.

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And then somebody told you you
could make a living out of

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something that you love.
Well, somebody said you never

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worked a day in your life.
If you do something you love,

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there are days I love it more
than others. Be honest about it.

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Like every every passion in life.
But the truth is I consider

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myself very lucky.
And that's why I tell my children as

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well. Find something you love doing.
Don't force yourself doing

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something you don't because
you're wasting your time.

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But if you do, then give everything
you've got and that's lovely.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So what happened next?

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Then you got you got into the
industry,

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but how did the journey take off?
Well, the journey take off because

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actually one of the bakers in my
street took me on an apprenticeship.

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I was 14, just about 14 at the time.
So fairly young. I wasn't an adult.

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I was a kid still 14 years old.
And bless him, my dad had to

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drive me at 4:00 in the morning
to get to my first shifts and

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until I got a moped eventually.
And then I did the journey myself.

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But yes, 14 years old, 14 years old
and started as a baker first for two

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years because I'd been very strongly
influenced by my parents, bless them.

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And they kind of they understood
the artisan world but obviously

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from a different side.
And they always thought, you know,

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if you want to be a good pastry chef,
you can have to know how to do

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the bread as well because if one
day you've got your own business,

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only one side of it might just
be difficult.

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And in France,
a lot of good successful business

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sells bread as well as patisserie.
So I wanted to know everything

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and then make my choices after
if I had to.

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And actually that has been
always my motto of preparing

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myself for the world.
If you aim high, you can always

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come back down and find what you
like to do and adjust to the need

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of of of your job in some ways.
So I always said I'm going to do

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two years apprenticeship in bakery,
which I started and 14 years old

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I was earning something less than
70 pounds a month in my first wage.

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In some ways what I really love
about that though is,

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is that like you had the support
of your family very early, like to

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get up in the morning and drive you
at 4:00 in the morning to a shift?

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That's a dedicated parent for sure.
Yeah.

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Do you think that that's different
in France than it is to the UK?

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This is a subject that intrigues
me greatly because we always,

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always talk about how hospitality
is is seen in Europe as our your

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proper professional career.
Whereas in the UK it's maybe not

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necessarily got that gravitas in
amongst some parents out there which

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is what we're trying to change.
But is that a fair comment, do you

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think, or do you see it differently?
Well, I've been here only 28 years,

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so I didn't.
I didn't I didn't grow in this

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country.
So I just came as a guest only later

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on in life. But from what I see.
Parents here are as dedicated as

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anybody else around the world,
I believe.

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They they still want the best
for their children.

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They still fight for the best
schools.

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They try to even move around the
place to try to make sure they've

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got a good catch, a good catch
in school for for their kids.

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So I don't think the dedication of
the parents is to be put in doubt.

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What is perhaps hopefully
changing now is the perception of

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what hospitality is all about.
I think I remember kind of picking

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up the difference in France.
It's a job, it's a career.

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It's something you see yourself
doing respectably and be very

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proud of it when perhaps in the
UK it's something which has

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started to change recently. Yeah.
When before being a waiter,

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you know, serving people at the
table was seen as a casual job.

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Perhaps it still is,
but not as something you can do

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for the rest of your life.
You see, when in fact there is very a

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great career path to be taken when
you are head waiter or sommelier

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and there is more than just putting
a plate on the table and smile to

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a guest in that side of the job.
And for the pastry chef, well, it's

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the truth as well because actually 28
years ago a great chef said pastry

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in England or in the UK is dead.
And I've never believed this because

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now out of 14 people in my team,
I'm the only Frenchman and

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everybody else pretty much or
three quarters of them are from

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UK or British nationality.
So that means there is now an

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understanding that if you like
baking,

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if you like making patisserie,
if you like the sweet side of

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cooking, you can choose making
this and make a career out of it.

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Here in the UK it's a growing
element of it.

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Restaurant and hotel start to
appreciate that there is a

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different skill set between chefs
and pastry chefs as well as there

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is a different skill set from a
sommelier to a waiter or head waiter.

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So we're starting to see different
niche, different specialty within

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the industry which now attract
youngsters and less young people for

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perhaps doing this as a passion,
you know, and you got actually the

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number of CV, you will not believe
who comes back after having spent

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5 or 6 years at university and
working for a bank and decided at

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28 or 30 years old that they didn't
want to do this no more because they

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don't enjoy it and they want to
come back from the beginning And

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being a pastry chef and you say,
well, that's not something which

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was happening 28 years ago.
This is something which is now

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happening because people realize they
want to do something they love. Yeah.

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So sometimes it's not always
possible Economically it's a big

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jump to come from working in a bank
to starting at the bottom of a in

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a pastry world. But it is there.
So and all of them have been saying

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to me they regrets the biggest regret
not not having followed their heart

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but followed what they were due to do
as opposed to what they wanted to do.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's I never thought about it

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that way.
That's that you can get somebody

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at that stage of their career
who's who basically wants to

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start again because the path
that they've chosen is not the

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path that they actually want.
And it's never too late to,

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to realize that.
But obviously the longer you wait,

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the harder the jump.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Because obviously I remember somebody
working in a bank with a salary

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over 60,000 pounds a year having
to leave that to the side and then

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start back at the very lower level
in a job which is not badly paid.

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But still you've got to have that
and also you have to work the

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weekends and suddenly the evenings.
So the lifestyle has to change

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as well.
So when you are young you invest

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your time developing your skills,
making sure you are good around her

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and you get as strong as you can,
then suddenly the salaries are way,

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00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:58,370
way, way better than you could expect
and they are certainly as competitive

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as you would have perhaps in a bank
or anywhere else like that for sure.

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So that's the attractive place.
But you need to prepare yourself

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and decide from the beginning
this is something you want to do

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for the rest of your life.
Yeah, it's not an overnight

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00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:10,250
success for sure.
You've got to put the graft in

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and but like anything, I suppose
those who went to university invest

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a lot of effort, a lot of money,
but hopefully it's for something they

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want to do for life because otherwise
it's a it's an expensive game. Yeah.

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To lose. Yeah. Back to your story.
Yeah. What happened next?

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Where did we get to?
So we had the apprenticeship,

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I guess. Yeah.
So I did two years apprenticeship as

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a baker first and then I followed it
by another two years as a pastry chef

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because ultimately I wanted to be a
pastry chef. It's something I love.

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Sweets There is that little biscuit
kind of trigger played with my mind

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from where I was very, very young.
It's called the Financier and I

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always thought if I could do my own,
I could eat as many as I can.

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And believe it or not,
every single day I eat one really,

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which is not good for me,
I have to say. Actually.

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Looking good Nick though. Yeah. Yeah.
But they're hazelnut financier.

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He's part of a little biscuit
range and it's in a box and

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00:14:04,740 --> 00:14:08,130
always going to be there.
Always remind me that there is

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certainly one of the reasons I fall
into the pot was one of those,

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00:14:12,510 --> 00:14:14,550
you know, and my little guilty
pleasure in some way.

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So I became a pastry chef.
I always love the intricacy of work.

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As a baker you handle big volumes.
It could be very repetitive,

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especially if you work in a shop.
But as a pastry chef,

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there is always going to be a little
bit of hard work, a little bit of

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of finesse and then the variety of
things you have to do every day to

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get by makes it very interesting.
Yeah. And then the seasons as well.

250
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And the thing you have to and
the produce you're working with.

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I mean, I was 16 years old.
I never saw a vanilla pot in my

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00:14:48,270 --> 00:14:51,100
life at the time.
Yeah, Kiwis were the first fruit.

253
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We kind of exotic fruit we
started to see when I was young,

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you know what I mean?
It looks like now it's on every

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shelf of every supermarket.
But the reality in those days in

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France you were eating very
seasonal food, which was great,

257
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but at the same time you knew only
what you could get around you.

258
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Now the world is very global and you
can get anything and see everything,

259
00:15:11,410 --> 00:15:14,860
which in terms of a development
point of view is very interesting.

260
00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:17,800
But as a pastry chef, yeah,
discovered my first vanilla pods.

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00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,170
The difference between different
varieties of chocolates,

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origin and so on.
And then you start to grow and not

263
00:15:23,380 --> 00:15:27,760
just making cakes or patisseries you
also start to build up your knowledge

264
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,240
about ingredients, which is crucial
because you're not mixing up two

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00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,960
powders together To make a cake.
You have to understand the chemical

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00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,010
reaction, the flavor profile,
the essence of flavors and how

267
00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:41,920
it's going to work together to
create a beautiful ghetto

268
00:15:41,950 --> 00:15:45,760
patisserie or desserts.
Yeah, and that's I suppose that's a

269
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comes with experience as opposed
to I mean I always look at the

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world of pastry as being quite
almost alchemy because it's,

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00:15:53,860 --> 00:15:56,920
you know, it's a real art form,
but it feels like it's not something

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00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,100
that you could you can have ideas
in your head, but you can't

273
00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:05,110
fully form them just overnight.
Like it's going to take time to

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00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,070
get your head around what you need
to make that the most spectacular

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00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:12,670
version of whatever it is that you've
come up with. It's never achieved.

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That's the truth.
The and that's that's that's a

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00:16:16,510 --> 00:16:20,050
dangerous game to a degree if you are
a perfectionist like you can be and

278
00:16:20,050 --> 00:16:23,620
I'm a little bit unfortunately at
times because you're never happy

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00:16:23,620 --> 00:16:27,820
with the result you always try
to push to find the best result.

280
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You sometimes find it when you do.
There you go.

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There is your classic dish.
There is your classic patisserie

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that you will keep for the rest
of your life.

283
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,790
And you know,
it's it's achieved almost perfection

284
00:16:40,060 --> 00:16:44,980
to your mind if it's never perfect.
But it takes time and humility.

285
00:16:45,010 --> 00:16:51,640
You will get one thing from the first
go straight to where it should be.

286
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,340
It's called luck.
That's nothing else.

287
00:16:54,340 --> 00:16:56,710
It's called luck because there
is always something to work on

288
00:16:56,710 --> 00:17:00,970
to make it better.
But sometimes you strike lucky and

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00:17:00,970 --> 00:17:05,140
you've got the right direction.
Actually, development or

290
00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:08,980
creation of a new dish is always
the hardest thing because you

291
00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:11,170
need to find your inspiration.
You need to know where,

292
00:17:11,290 --> 00:17:13,840
what's your story,
what's your journey with this dish?

293
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:18,250
What do you want to achieve and what
ultimately emotions you want to

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00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:22,180
create when you are eating something?
Because at the end of the day,

295
00:17:22,210 --> 00:17:26,350
flavors, textures,
visuals create emotions,

296
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:29,590
reaction and that's what you want
In our guest guest spends quite a

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00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:32,590
bit of money when they come and
eat with you here definitely at

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00:17:32,590 --> 00:17:37,390
Le Manoir you want to trigger in
themselves something that you didn't

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00:17:37,390 --> 00:17:42,220
think was possible. So there you go.
So it could be an emotions come

300
00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:44,500
from different places as far as
eating food.

301
00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:49,780
You know, it could be a very simple,
simply made baked like the petit

302
00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:54,700
financiere and yet ensure that
you've got the best pleasure with

303
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:59,170
the flavor, the bitterness and and
the nuttiness of the of the smell

304
00:17:59,170 --> 00:18:03,280
and flavor. So as I said before.
So it's just about getting it right.

305
00:18:03,310 --> 00:18:05,350
It's not an easy thing to do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

306
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:10,840
No, no, no, absolutely.
I mean, I'm a wannabe chef in my

307
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:16,870
own kitchen, but when it comes to
matters of pastry, I can't do it.

308
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:20,170
I just. I leave that to the wife.
She loves doing all that stuff

309
00:18:20,170 --> 00:18:22,240
because it's.
Because it's kind of, you know,

310
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,600
it's measured.
Whereas I'm a kind of on the fly

311
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,820
recipe kind of a guy when it
comes to cooking.

312
00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:29,860
And that doesn't really work in
the world of patisserie and

313
00:18:29,860 --> 00:18:32,560
cooking at home.
As I just realized through the

314
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,400
lockdown, it's not the easiest thing
to do and actually patisserie in

315
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,980
particular or dessert or baking,
whatever you call it,

316
00:18:39,010 --> 00:18:42,880
it's the hardest thing to do because
cooking you can always get by.

317
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,150
You get the ingredients,
you can get by very quickly.

318
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:48,760
You cook the steak, you have the
potato, you kind of work around.

319
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:53,500
But you have to combine together
a specific amount of ingredients

320
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:57,220
and the right ingredients as well.
Otherwise you ultimately change

321
00:18:57,220 --> 00:19:00,760
totally the results.
And I did find out very hard

322
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,210
because when I got locked away in
my kitchen at home, I realized I

323
00:19:04,210 --> 00:19:06,640
didn't have the right ingredients. I.
You don't have the right equipment.

324
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,750
I didn't have the right recipe
with me.

325
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:13,350
And suddenly you thought you
were good and you start baking

326
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:16,640
in your own kitchen.
Then you realize, okay, now you

327
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,890
get tested. So humble. Humble.
A few months for me when I had

328
00:19:21,890 --> 00:19:24,950
to kind of re-approach my work
and I loved it.

329
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:29,000
I loved every minute of it because it
was kind of a new discovery for me.

330
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:35,180
Changing the way you work adapt
to different conditions and yeah,

331
00:19:35,210 --> 00:19:37,760
make it work still. Yeah.
And challenging. Challenging.

332
00:19:37,770 --> 00:19:39,950
I think that's encouraging for
us all as well to hear a world

333
00:19:39,950 --> 00:19:42,800
class pastry chef say that they
struggled in their own kitchen.

334
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,280
That's. I'll take that to the bank.
Well, don't get me wrong,

335
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,700
I managed to get some success as
well. But of course it is true.

336
00:19:50,030 --> 00:19:52,040
You have to be humble around
your work.

337
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:56,210
You know, it's a journey which
will never stop learning.

338
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,620
You know, even a recipe you think
you know you've mastered with

339
00:20:00,620 --> 00:20:03,560
the back of your hand and so on.
Change your environment and suddenly

340
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,440
things will change also with it.
So you have to really adapt and

341
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,630
understand where it comes from
and I find that very interesting.

342
00:20:09,630 --> 00:20:13,110
Yeah, absolutely. Back to the story.
We haven't even got into your

343
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:16,530
20s yet. No, no, no.
Well, just about thereabouts.

344
00:20:16,530 --> 00:20:20,160
So I got my two years apprenticeship
as a pastry chef and then I went

345
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,970
on to work for a year in Paris
because when you finish four

346
00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:26,310
years of apprenticeship,
then you become what we call a

347
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:30,410
qualified ouvriere you know,
a chef, right? Simple point force.

348
00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:33,720
You got the ouvriere world for that.
And you start at the very bottom

349
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,910
where I would say in today's
world I very classical pastry

350
00:20:38,910 --> 00:20:43,890
shop range with a very old pastry
chef stuck in his own ways.

351
00:20:43,890 --> 00:20:48,330
But the good thing there I've learned
very, very, very classical thing,

352
00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:52,470
such as making your own praline,
peeling up your own almonds,

353
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,520
making your own almond pants,
almond paste and marzipan and things

354
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,550
like that, things you will not do
in a pastry shop you still don't

355
00:20:59,550 --> 00:21:03,450
do anymore because you buy them.
Those produce already made from

356
00:21:03,450 --> 00:21:07,680
very reliable companies and and
they are actually stunning produce.

357
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,760
But for me being able to do it
from scratch and seeing the old

358
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,900
fashioned way of where our job
started helped me to understand how

359
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,410
it gets made and appreciate what
works and what doesn't work and what

360
00:21:19,410 --> 00:21:21,900
you're looking for in one of those
produce when you get to buy one.

361
00:21:22,050 --> 00:21:24,810
So it was very interesting.
The only downside to that time it

362
00:21:24,810 --> 00:21:28,550
wasn't the most enjoyable for me
because we had a clash of generation,

363
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,330
which is a gentleman was about
to retire.

364
00:21:30,330 --> 00:21:33,690
It was just past the date in
terms of retirement and it was a

365
00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:36,270
little bit grumpy and he had to
work with youngsters.

366
00:21:36,270 --> 00:21:40,440
We were all fired up and and wanted
a little bit of newness and new

367
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,720
recipes and it wasn't having it.
So I did a year and then moved to

368
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,350
I did my military service because
in France in those years you were

369
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:54,360
doing a year military service in
the Navy and there I had the

370
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:58,770
opportunity to work for the officers.
And guess what? I was a pastry chef.

371
00:21:59,220 --> 00:22:02,310
Oh, pastry chef.
We got a spot for you.

372
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:03,840
You're going to make cakes for us.
And I did.

373
00:22:03,870 --> 00:22:07,620
The good thing with that is I
never stood still.

374
00:22:07,620 --> 00:22:10,560
I said, okay, I'm going to do this
for you, but I want you to give

375
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,890
me because you didn't have any
two days off every week when you

376
00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:16,800
were doing your military service,
when you were doing your military

377
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,230
service, you could be there for three
months without a single day off,

378
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:22,230
right? Yeah.
But what has negotiated through

379
00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:27,510
my cakes and desserts is to have
every Monday off to go to school

380
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:32,450
and prepare the theories test of
my master exam in pastry.

381
00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:40,500
So during that year, which most
young French chefs or people who

382
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:44,550
does the military service will
think they're wasting their time.

383
00:22:44,580 --> 00:22:48,870
I was actually investing my time
trying to do the theory side of my

384
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:53,100
master exam, so I did that for a year
and using your contraband to get

385
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:57,810
there and use my pastry contraband to
to sweeten the deal in some ways.

386
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,130
Good pun as well. Yeah.
And and then when I came back to

387
00:23:02,130 --> 00:23:08,220
work, took on a job as an overseer
again out of the army and then I

388
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:14,070
managed to do the practical side
of my master exam there where was

389
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:17,430
I was working in a little bakery
with nobody to teach me much,

390
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:21,570
so I had to go for pretty much
every days off and holidays and

391
00:23:21,570 --> 00:23:24,570
found a pastry chefs which were
very renowned in the region

392
00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:28,200
where I was working and I was
spending a lot of time with him.

393
00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:32,460
You mess and he taught me all
the side of pastry.

394
00:23:32,460 --> 00:23:36,720
I didn't know because I haven't
been confronted yet completely with

395
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:43,650
that master level of of of of work.
And luckily his son was following the

396
00:23:43,650 --> 00:23:46,710
right path to do the master exam.
He went to school specifically

397
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:49,230
and dedicated for that.
So between him and his son,

398
00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:54,540
I kind of picked all all the
skills I needed and two years

399
00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:58,500
later I was Master Patissier.
So it was fairly young because I

400
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:01,560
was 22 years old, 20,
22 years old at the time.

401
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,330
But I did work in a bakery I did
work in. Restaurant.

402
00:24:05,330 --> 00:24:07,940
That was my first attempt at
working in restaurants as well.

403
00:24:08,210 --> 00:24:13,880
So I kind of became very aware of
the extent of what my job could be.

404
00:24:13,910 --> 00:24:17,990
It wasn't just a little bakery
in the middle of town or a big

405
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:21,620
patisserie in the middle of Paris.
It could be a hotel.

406
00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:26,060
It could be a restaurant.
Suddenly I kind of realized where

407
00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:29,930
I wanted to go and work and the
restaurant hotel world was more

408
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,990
of a favor to me because the
shift pattern was more like my

409
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,470
my my clock in some ways where I
prefer to work in the evening

410
00:24:39,470 --> 00:24:41,810
than very early in the morning.
And that's always been the case.

411
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:46,370
Plus working in hospitality,
which is a restaurant and hotel in

412
00:24:46,370 --> 00:24:50,090
particular gives you the opportunity
to meet some so many other people.

413
00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:54,290
But when you work in a pastry shop
or in a bakery, you only see your

414
00:24:54,290 --> 00:24:58,100
colleagues and you get there.
It's dark, you leave, you go to bed,

415
00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:02,810
you see no one you know, when in a
you work in hospitality industry,

416
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:08,250
you see so many people from different
origins, from different skill set,

417
00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:12,000
from different experience.
There is so much to learn from people

418
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,540
you're working with other than just
what you're doing as well and made it

419
00:25:15,540 --> 00:25:18,840
so much more interesting for me.
So that's why I started to decide or

420
00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:24,210
that's why I decided to stick to this
side of the world of of cooking.

421
00:25:24,210 --> 00:25:27,930
And I went to work at the
Normandy Hotel in Deauville for

422
00:25:27,930 --> 00:25:32,880
my first position as a pastry
chef in a restaurant where I was

423
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,200
by myself doing bread and all
the dessert and again developing

424
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,430
my skill and suddenly not making
patisseries or baking anymore,

425
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:45,420
but had to transfer these skills into
a plated dessert where obviously

426
00:25:45,420 --> 00:25:50,130
textures, flavor profile and
emotion side of it is completely

427
00:25:50,130 --> 00:25:53,600
different than when you got into
a cake because they're in a cake.

428
00:25:53,610 --> 00:25:57,120
Something needs to last for a
few hours when in a dessert it

429
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,570
will be gone within ten minutes.
So you're working, you're pushing

430
00:26:00,570 --> 00:26:04,500
the boundaries and you can work
with different kind of textures and

431
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:09,060
more fragile and lighter flavors.
So very interestingly there.

432
00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:12,840
Then from there I did a year and
a half there and then I got the

433
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,280
greatest opportunity of my life,
which was to go and work at the

434
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,550
Ritz Hotel in Paris,
the first original Ritz Hotel.

435
00:26:20,550 --> 00:26:23,550
I know there is one in London as
well which has also been created

436
00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:27,630
by Caesars, but the first one was
the One Place Vendome and I had two

437
00:26:27,630 --> 00:26:32,310
places in the world I wanted to work.
One was the Ritz in Paris and one

438
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:36,170
was Hotel de Monaco in Monaco
Hotel de Paris in Monaco, right.

439
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,220
And both reasons was because I
wanted to work with Major France.

440
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:45,630
Major France is the equivalent
we've got here is the mix master

441
00:26:45,630 --> 00:26:48,090
of culinary art,
which happens every four years.

442
00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:53,100
And in France those guys are the
best craftsmen in their field in

443
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:57,480
France and ultimately in the world.
And at the Ritz in Paris and at

444
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,680
the Hotel de Paris in Monaco,
you had some of those guys in bakery,

445
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,040
in Patisserie, in kitchens.
They were everywhere.

446
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,420
So those big kitchens had the
means to employ the best people.

447
00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:12,630
And I wanted to work with one of them
to see how it felt like, you know,

448
00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:16,320
and also learn from the best.
Because all my career I've

449
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,670
learned through good people.
But I had to work hard to try to

450
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,750
find that knowledge and skill to
better myself with it there.

451
00:27:24,750 --> 00:27:27,690
You could work with those guys,
embed yourself in it and then

452
00:27:27,690 --> 00:27:32,670
completely submerge yourself in that
world of perfection and try to be the

453
00:27:32,670 --> 00:27:37,470
best you could. So I got a position.
After waiting for six months,

454
00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:40,740
I had to wait six months for a
position to become available there

455
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:44,730
and I started I was like 22 or 23
years old as a chef de partie.

456
00:27:44,730 --> 00:27:47,490
I was chef de partie and I'd
never worked in the kitchen.

457
00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:50,790
But then I hold my ground 23
years old and I worked there for

458
00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:54,180
almost four years and I ended up
as a sous chef number two in a

459
00:27:54,180 --> 00:27:58,410
pastry kitchen and we were 85 in
the kitchen, believe it or not.

460
00:27:58,410 --> 00:28:01,650
And five of those guys were at
France, one in bakery,

461
00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:05,370
four in kitchen.
My chef Patissier did the final of

462
00:28:05,370 --> 00:28:11,160
the MOF twice, but never got to
unfortunately the title because

463
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,070
it's something you don't get given.
You have to work very hard and

464
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:17,370
there is a little bit of of of luck
as well on the day you have to

465
00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:21,450
deliver on the day And it's a very,
very, very tough awards to get.

466
00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:24,960
But when you get it it's the
ultimate reward in France for sure.

467
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,710
Yeah but yeah work four years
there almost four years.

468
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:32,790
And then the phone rang.
It was Raymond Blanc looking for

469
00:28:32,790 --> 00:28:37,260
a pastry chef.
So at the time I was kind of

470
00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:42,210
looking to leave the Ritz,
although I had a great position,

471
00:28:42,210 --> 00:28:46,020
I was well looked after and you know,
I was continuing to grow.

472
00:28:46,020 --> 00:28:49,590
But after four years I wanted to
travel the world. I was 27 years old.

473
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,760
I've dedicated pretty much all
my career to my work.

474
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,970
My wife, who just got married,
said to Raymond Blanc one day

475
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Bonjour is married with his work,
then with me, I believe.

476
00:29:00,870 --> 00:29:04,750
Believe me when I say it's not true.
I'm with my wife first. But she.

477
00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:06,790
She thought that was because I
was completely invested in

478
00:29:06,790 --> 00:29:09,670
myself to grow.
I wanted to make myself as

479
00:29:09,670 --> 00:29:12,730
strong as possible.
So we wanted to travel

480
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,660
potentially to go to nice places.
I think consolidate your your

481
00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:21,640
your your CV in some ways at the
Ritz in Paris.

482
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,180
But the UK was at the very
bottom of the list.

483
00:29:25,390 --> 00:29:28,030
I promise you I love you guys to
beat.

484
00:29:28,030 --> 00:29:30,820
I don't doubt it at that time,
but at the time I wanted to travel

485
00:29:30,850 --> 00:29:34,450
perhaps to places exotic or to
America to try to get, you know,

486
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,300
the big book and then eventually
have a different lifestyle.

487
00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:41,050
But Raymond Blanc was the first
one to call and I came to see him.

488
00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:44,590
He took me about four months to
make my mind up.

489
00:29:44,590 --> 00:29:46,660
He was a very persuasive man,
I have to say.

490
00:29:46,660 --> 00:29:49,630
He was trying, trying,
trying and I wasn't committing.

491
00:29:49,630 --> 00:29:53,140
I was not quite ready.
And eventually in January 1995,

492
00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:55,890
I joined the team and I said to him,
You know, if I'm here six,

493
00:29:56,050 --> 00:29:59,980
six months, I'll be there two years.
Yeah. Yeah.

494
00:30:00,010 --> 00:30:03,930
There was a lot to be done to to
set it to the standard though

495
00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:08,530
the persecution was a great one.
But Le Manoir was in the transition

496
00:30:08,530 --> 00:30:16,540
phase of extension and rebuilding and
a pastry kitchen at the temporary

497
00:30:17,170 --> 00:30:20,890
chefs for the past couple of years
made it a little bit difficult to

498
00:30:20,890 --> 00:30:25,660
ground a team that could progress.
So my job was to kind of set

499
00:30:25,660 --> 00:30:29,500
this one down and re install
some good foundations,

500
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:33,010
which they had before, but they've
lost for a couple of years.

501
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:38,320
And yeah, six months grew in two
years and two years grew in 28 years.

502
00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:42,790
But I love working here.
Yes, there are better days than

503
00:30:42,790 --> 00:30:45,600
others like everybody.
Yeah, but you appreciate it.

504
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,520
It makes you appreciate it makes
you appreciate the good days better

505
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,340
when you have a slightly less ones.
You know what I mean?

506
00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:55,480
And but there is not one day the
same And that's that's the truth.

507
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,360
That's the reality.
This place is is never standing

508
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,120
still.
There is always that quest for

509
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,770
perfection,
as Raymond Blanc will say.

510
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,690
And every witch which has been there
long enough understands that and is

511
00:31:08,690 --> 00:31:13,220
fully behind it and committed to it.
You but I really love about your

512
00:31:13,220 --> 00:31:17,450
journey to this point is I mean
what you talked about earlier in

513
00:31:17,450 --> 00:31:23,260
our conversation around.
Set your sights high and maybe

514
00:31:23,260 --> 00:31:25,390
you'll land there. Maybe you won't.
Maybe you'll land a little bit

515
00:31:25,390 --> 00:31:27,160
below that.
But if you set your sights high,

516
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,190
you don't know what you're going to
be able to achieve until you do that.

517
00:31:30,190 --> 00:31:33,890
And your your story is a kind of
living proof of that.

518
00:31:33,910 --> 00:31:36,610
You set your sights.
I wanted to go and work at the Ritz

519
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,870
in Paris. Nailed that. Got that?
It was hard work, no doubt, I'm sure.

520
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:43,720
And probably a learning curve
was extreme at times.

521
00:31:43,870 --> 00:31:49,630
But you keep setting this
dedicated sights on being the

522
00:31:49,630 --> 00:31:53,410
best you can possibly be.
And and even in the when you were

523
00:31:53,410 --> 00:31:58,960
talking about even like your time
off was spent going to learn.

524
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,560
Yeah you know and this is the
thing that I think is a it's a

525
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,380
message that I think is massively
important If you really,

526
00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:09,820
really want to make it in anything,
whether it's hospitality or anywhere,

527
00:32:09,820 --> 00:32:12,310
you've got to have that level of
dedication, I think.

528
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,230
I don't think I think you're very,
very lucky if you get to a

529
00:32:17,230 --> 00:32:21,590
position of success quickly.
And you know, luckily I mean

530
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:26,660
maybe Instagram influencers can
do it in ten days or whatever.

531
00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:29,780
But yeah, I mean when it comes
to learning your craft,

532
00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:32,900
especially when it comes to to
that and I don't mind blowing

533
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:36,920
smoke up your backside as well.
My wife and I have eaten here before

534
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,840
and my wife is quite particular
when it comes to desserts she

535
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,360
doesn't like over sweet.
Like balance, she said, Make sure

536
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,390
you remember to tell Ben that it's
the best desserts that we've ever

537
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:53,090
had anywhere. She has to come back.
Yeah. So there we are.

538
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,870
So thank you for that. Yeah.
But yeah, I really, really love that.

539
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:59,780
And I also love the fact that I mean,
you you would have joined here at a

540
00:32:59,780 --> 00:33:04,700
time where the food scene in the UK
probably wasn't that great. It was.

541
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,120
It was the beginning, I would guess.
Yeah, but it is true.

542
00:33:08,150 --> 00:33:10,570
I remember going out on Leap of
Faith.

543
00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:13,510
Hell of a leap of faith going
out around Oxford.

544
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,630
I remember that Tournedos Rossini,
which was a disaster in a restaurant.

545
00:33:17,630 --> 00:33:19,490
I say, Oh God,
this is what we're eating.

546
00:33:19,490 --> 00:33:24,050
And in fact the best food you could
find was in pubs, gastro pub cooking,

547
00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:28,190
honest English food, you know,
And that was that was lovely.

548
00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:31,730
But any anything been tried to
be fancy a little bit.

549
00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:36,170
It was a disaster. We grew from that.
I mean the UK now is I mean even

550
00:33:36,170 --> 00:33:38,600
comparing to France when I go to
France sometimes some

551
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,810
restaurants are really,
really average for the money you pay.

552
00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:46,370
When here in the UK you've got
you had to be for cost of living

553
00:33:46,370 --> 00:33:48,890
and all that.
Yeah really good value for money

554
00:33:48,890 --> 00:33:51,650
and the cooking skills was
brilliant because they were

555
00:33:51,650 --> 00:33:54,440
trying to be good at what they
were doing when in France they

556
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,780
were a bit complacent at times.
You say that's going to do,

557
00:33:56,780 --> 00:34:01,310
that's going to be fine, you know.
And I thought the service and the

558
00:34:01,310 --> 00:34:04,940
quality of food in general in
France not everywhere, of course,

559
00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:08,510
but mainstream has gone down.
One in the UK went up.

560
00:34:08,660 --> 00:34:13,520
So yeah, but what I wanted to say
earlier on about the career and

561
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,750
perhaps a message for young lads is
invest. Don't see it like dedication.

562
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:19,760
Yeah, dedication, dedication.
But you think,

563
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,820
oh it's a whole lot of hard work.
But if you love what you do,

564
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,560
it's not as hard as that because you
have a Sunday or you have a monday

565
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,430
off bam, you're going to go and go
and pull sugar work and do some

566
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:34,940
lovely sugar roses and do a sugar
sculpture or chocolate or whatever.

567
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:39,350
It's fun if you love what you're
doing. Yeah, but it's also work.

568
00:34:39,350 --> 00:34:45,060
But it's an investment.
You are investing in yourself,

569
00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:47,480
so there's nothing wrong there.
It's absolutely wrong.

570
00:34:47,490 --> 00:34:51,690
Now if you rather invest in going
to the movie or going out and play

571
00:34:51,690 --> 00:34:56,130
your PlayStation or your console
or like my son online movie games

572
00:34:56,130 --> 00:35:00,210
and so on, yeah, it's your call.
But ultimately are you bettering

573
00:35:00,210 --> 00:35:03,730
yourself?
In your own development there or

574
00:35:03,730 --> 00:35:06,490
just having fun and having fun
is important.

575
00:35:06,490 --> 00:35:12,040
But let's not forget fun will not
always give you a career prospect.

576
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,160
And the last little bit of advice
I would say for me it was all

577
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,450
about what is my career going to
look like when I'm 40 years old?

578
00:35:19,450 --> 00:35:23,350
And I was perhaps a boring little
view and most youngsters don't

579
00:35:23,350 --> 00:35:26,140
know what they want to do in life.
And the most interesting people

580
00:35:26,170 --> 00:35:28,900
are certainly don't know what
they want to be in life,

581
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:31,840
but it gives you an idea of where
you want to sit with your family.

582
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,360
Will you have a family?
Will you want a family?

583
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:36,820
When I was young,
I always thought I'll have one

584
00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:39,430
and then how do you care and how
do you look after your family?

585
00:35:39,460 --> 00:35:42,190
Well, you need to give your best
chance, your best shot and your

586
00:35:42,190 --> 00:35:45,700
best chance is behind you to make
sure you are as strong and as

587
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:48,580
skilled as possible to get there.
And for me, there was no doubt

588
00:35:48,580 --> 00:35:52,420
I'll be a pastry chef anyway.
So I said, There we go, invest most

589
00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:57,310
of my time in bettering myself.
And one day at 27 years old when

590
00:35:57,310 --> 00:36:00,970
I came to Le Manoir,
then I had the skill set necessary

591
00:36:00,970 --> 00:36:06,620
to do the job and be there.
The problem we have today is well,

592
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:10,370
when there is a skill shortage
perhaps in our industry is you

593
00:36:10,370 --> 00:36:16,220
get some people in the industry
who get brought up in the most

594
00:36:16,220 --> 00:36:19,850
superior position that they actually
skill for and that's the downside

595
00:36:19,850 --> 00:36:22,490
to that because then they reach
their limit far too quickly.

596
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:25,700
So I would say, guys,
invest in your development,

597
00:36:26,090 --> 00:36:30,320
invest in your progression, make
sure it's something you love doing

598
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,040
and look at yourself in the future
as strong Do you want to be and

599
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,030
where do you want to be potentially?
And that's maybe a question too far

600
00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:41,000
and many struggled to answer that.
But because you never kind of

601
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,900
thought about it, you know, and that
helps you to give yourself a path

602
00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:48,110
towards success. Absolutely. Yeah.
And I would I would just add to

603
00:36:48,140 --> 00:36:51,380
that as well that consolidate
your learning like you don't

604
00:36:51,380 --> 00:36:56,480
need to be in a rush to get from
CDP to sous chef as an example.

605
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,480
You know, make sure you take all of
the learning you can while you're at

606
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,740
that level so that you're better
prepared for the next level. Yeah.

607
00:37:03,740 --> 00:37:07,070
And if you make two quick progress,
you can sometimes find yourself

608
00:37:07,070 --> 00:37:11,000
out of your depth very quickly
and that's a different problem

609
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:13,700
then at that point.
But but yeah,

610
00:37:13,940 --> 00:37:18,200
ultimately it's very good.
I think our industry is a

611
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,590
generous one.
There's been some reset button

612
00:37:21,590 --> 00:37:25,040
been pressed in the past 2 or 3
years which make it less hard

613
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,950
than it used to be.
I mean now people are paid for

614
00:37:27,950 --> 00:37:31,520
every hour they work.
You should say it's it should be.

615
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,060
But it hasn't been always the case.
We talk about long hours.

616
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:38,360
Yes, there are still longer than
others, but not as bad as they were.

617
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,180
You know, to give you an example,
in a pastry at Le Manoir,

618
00:37:41,180 --> 00:37:45,450
we work 48 50 hours a week while
we used to do 70. 80. Yeah. Okay.

619
00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:50,510
So there is still a lot more done
than perhaps if somebody works

620
00:37:50,510 --> 00:37:56,120
35 or 40 hours. That's a fact.
But in our industry it's a lot less

621
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,030
than it used to be and you can have
a work life balance around it,

622
00:37:59,030 --> 00:38:01,940
which is important and you still
meet everybody.

623
00:38:01,940 --> 00:38:05,240
Plus you can travel with it.
Let's not forget though,

624
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:08,450
we live in a world of traveling
restrictions with COVID coming

625
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:10,820
out of COVID a little bit,
but you could live anywhere in

626
00:38:10,820 --> 00:38:13,610
the world without you. Yeah.
Or any of those jobs because you'll

627
00:38:13,610 --> 00:38:15,950
never be anywhere in the world.
You will have a restaurant or a

628
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:20,330
hotel or a shop which will need
your skills so it gives you an

629
00:38:20,330 --> 00:38:24,830
opportunity to live differently.
I suppose that if you go into a

630
00:38:24,830 --> 00:38:28,100
bank potentially you may have a
good quality of life.

631
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:31,370
Fair enough, but you will stick
to pretty much where you are

632
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:37,010
potentially with all work.
You might not be academically driven

633
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:41,690
though I will always encourage
youngsters don't think it's a job for

634
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:45,260
the people who can't read and write.
Only you can be smart and the

635
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:47,330
smarter you are,
the more successful you can be.

636
00:38:47,330 --> 00:38:54,860
But obviously without too much
academic behind you, you can look at

637
00:38:54,860 --> 00:38:59,030
the world as your oyster and the
place you can work with and meet

638
00:38:59,030 --> 00:39:02,180
so many great people and you meet
great people, famous people and

639
00:39:02,180 --> 00:39:05,320
eventually if you are a bit lucky,
you can do a bit of TV as well. Yeah.

640
00:39:05,390 --> 00:39:10,190
Wow. Nice segway. There you go.
So how did that come about?

641
00:39:10,220 --> 00:39:13,400
How did Because you know what we were
talking about earlier on as well

642
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,690
around the fact that the world of
pastry is really been put on the map.

643
00:39:17,930 --> 00:39:21,410
First of all, when a kind of amateur
sense would bake off and then bake

644
00:39:21,410 --> 00:39:26,190
off professionals came along and
frankly. It's a compelling watch.

645
00:39:26,670 --> 00:39:29,580
It's actually one of the most
stressful TV shows I've ever

646
00:39:29,580 --> 00:39:31,890
watched in my life.
Especially when they're moving

647
00:39:31,890 --> 00:39:35,420
the show pieces and the like.
But how did that come about for you?

648
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:39,270
Well, before the TV.
What's important is the world of

649
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:40,650
competitions.
I mean,

650
00:39:40,650 --> 00:39:44,250
that's one thing we haven't discussed
yet is obviously throughout that

651
00:39:44,250 --> 00:39:49,290
journey of of bettering yourself,
perfecting your skills and growing

652
00:39:49,290 --> 00:39:54,000
into your job, all competition
is also a very big tool to that.

653
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:56,870
And believe it or not,
there is a World cup of pastry.

654
00:39:57,220 --> 00:40:00,990
Yes, it's not just football or rugby.
There is also a world cup of pastry.

655
00:40:01,020 --> 00:40:02,410
It's called La Coupe du Monde,
La Patisserie.

656
00:40:02,430 --> 00:40:04,890
It has to be a French name
because it's held in France.

657
00:40:04,890 --> 00:40:09,270
But the reality is the pastry World
Cup and it's held in Lyon every

658
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:15,210
two years and I've been involved
since 2011 in helping to set a

659
00:40:15,210 --> 00:40:18,900
team there one way or another.
And we've had a UK

660
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:25,030
representation there since then.
The first time in 2011 we had only

661
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:29,710
three months to come up with a team
and make it work and we came within

662
00:40:29,710 --> 00:40:33,940
the best ten teams in the world.
Considering you've got like 25 teams

663
00:40:34,510 --> 00:40:39,580
to begin with and that was with no
money, no training, no nothing.

664
00:40:39,580 --> 00:40:43,120
We put two guys together, another
one on top and then off you go.

665
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,230
Try your best with what you got.
So that gave us a lot of hope and

666
00:40:47,230 --> 00:40:51,460
and encouragement to carry on.
And every two years we grew up

667
00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:55,930
throughout the ranks.
And the last one we finished fourth.

668
00:40:56,140 --> 00:40:59,830
Just the wrong place to be just
off the podium.

669
00:40:59,830 --> 00:41:03,400
But considering the UK pastry world
is fourth in the world, would you

670
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,790
think that when you look around you?
Well, it's definitely something

671
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:09,730
we help or we contributed to
grow in this country.

672
00:41:09,730 --> 00:41:14,530
Plus I've done the Master of
culinary Art in 2005 and I had

673
00:41:14,530 --> 00:41:17,740
three of my sous chefs who have
actually won it since.

674
00:41:17,740 --> 00:41:21,160
And I encourage all my
youngsters to take part of all

675
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,190
different levels of competition.
Young pastry chef of the year and

676
00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:27,340
different things like that in order
for them also to embrace that culture

677
00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:32,140
of bettering yourself through
your own work and your time off,

678
00:41:32,140 --> 00:41:35,800
but also for competition.
One day those guys, they look at

679
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,250
their they look behind and they say,
Well, I'm completely above

680
00:41:39,250 --> 00:41:41,950
everybody else because I've done
those little extras.

681
00:41:41,950 --> 00:41:44,680
But then throughout that world of
competition, which have seriously

682
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,310
encouraged through my time here
at Le Manoir and in the UK.

683
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:53,650
They eventually a phone call came
about and through that World Cup

684
00:41:53,650 --> 00:41:57,160
of pastry and the guys starting
to Google a little bit and see

685
00:41:57,670 --> 00:42:02,230
what was happening at the world
stage and what was achieved.

686
00:42:02,890 --> 00:42:07,180
A production company decided to
perhaps try to put a competition,

687
00:42:07,180 --> 00:42:13,390
but a television competition as such,
which could be a teamwork competition

688
00:42:13,390 --> 00:42:17,380
which never happened before.
Most competition on TV or much

689
00:42:17,650 --> 00:42:20,080
program on TV about single person.
Yeah, sure.

690
00:42:20,110 --> 00:42:23,470
So as a teamwork, we started with
team of three three people like

691
00:42:23,470 --> 00:42:26,710
you would have for the for the
for the World Cup and they had to

692
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:31,630
find the judges to be able to be
knowledgeable enough to a degree

693
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:37,120
and potentially going well on TV
as well or not being scared of

694
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,060
the camera and things like that.
And they were starting to

695
00:42:40,060 --> 00:42:43,490
interview people and actually I
wasn't cold to begin with. Okay.

696
00:42:43,540 --> 00:42:47,230
No, no, no, no, no, I wasn't.
So I don't think I don't blow my

697
00:42:47,230 --> 00:42:51,340
own trumpets on this actually
cherish And I got among the last

698
00:42:51,340 --> 00:42:56,170
one to be interviewed really
casted for it right in my head.

699
00:42:56,170 --> 00:42:58,330
I was like, oh, right,
we need to go and get him and we need

700
00:42:58,330 --> 00:43:02,380
to go and get her and that's it.
But the thing is, what really won my

701
00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:07,690
heart is the whole casting process.
I've heard about it going on and

702
00:43:07,690 --> 00:43:09,730
I said, You know what?
Well, well done, good for them.

703
00:43:09,940 --> 00:43:16,840
And lasted about 4 or 5 months.
And yeah, 3 or 4 months into it

704
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:19,990
we got the phone call and I said,
Well, I know you guys have been

705
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:23,210
casting for a little while.
Why are you calling me now? Mean?

706
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,120
And they said, Well yeah,
we ask every single people

707
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,630
they've interviewed and casted
who they think we should also

708
00:43:31,630 --> 00:43:34,930
interview to be with them.
And your name was mentioned

709
00:43:34,930 --> 00:43:38,090
pretty much all the time.
So eventually they said, Well,

710
00:43:38,090 --> 00:43:44,480
we have to call you. And we did.
So I came down and we got through

711
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,340
a selection process of different
judges and so was Cherish as well.

712
00:43:48,350 --> 00:43:51,200
So I knew Cherish from before in
the industry.

713
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,560
We never met a lot,
but I knew we went to a pastry

714
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,160
events on several occasions so I
knew of her and we get on very well.

715
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,840
But the difference then I think I
suppose well I think we've got picked

716
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,310
from Miss because out of everybody we
might have been genuine in our in

717
00:44:07,310 --> 00:44:11,720
our feedback and willing to kind
of do well very hard as you can

718
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:15,590
expect and as you would have seen,
we were also trying to kind of

719
00:44:15,590 --> 00:44:18,620
make sure there was a positive
outcome somewhere, somehow or at

720
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:22,880
least for the chefs down the line
and also trying to find the best

721
00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:27,140
of the candidate we could find.
And eventually we got to be

722
00:44:27,150 --> 00:44:30,770
first three judges and then
eventually down to two.

723
00:44:30,770 --> 00:44:37,080
And we are about to film the eighth
series next year. God, There you go.

724
00:44:37,110 --> 00:44:39,360
God, the time flies.
So yeah,

725
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,930
but it's exciting time every year.
I feel excited about the idea of

726
00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:47,490
going back and and meet new chefs,
meet new challenges as well with

727
00:44:47,490 --> 00:44:50,280
the chefs because obviously
Cherish and I are designing

728
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,360
those those challenging Yeah.
Those challenges and but you never

729
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,520
know how the team are going to
react to it and sometimes it looks

730
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,150
great and sometimes it doesn't.
That's sometimes we think we fail,

731
00:45:03,180 --> 00:45:05,130
we fail them.
Have we asked for something

732
00:45:05,130 --> 00:45:09,180
which is looking that difficult?
But then 1 or 2 teams manages it,

733
00:45:09,180 --> 00:45:12,110
so that means it's achievable
and it's a challenge, right?

734
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,670
You've got to set a challenge
and that's that's easy.

735
00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:17,820
It's the same thing if they
apply the same process.

736
00:45:18,210 --> 00:45:24,450
He Invest in your development
and invest in your practice for

737
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,030
that matter.
Then you come to the challenge time

738
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:31,590
and you will not fail dramatically.
You will be there or thereabouts

739
00:45:31,620 --> 00:45:34,680
and often enough,
especially through the first rounds,

740
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,960
the teams haven't prepared well
enough and therefore they find it

741
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,540
harder than they thought it would be.
Yeah. Yeah, that's the truth.

742
00:45:41,540 --> 00:45:43,160
No, I mean,
I think you guys get the balance

743
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,150
right of kind of being I mean,
you're like mum and dad basically.

744
00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:50,750
You know, it's like we we're going
to push you and we, you know,

745
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:54,980
we're going to be pretty tough
on the feedback, but equally

746
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:57,950
we're going to encourage you.
We want you to bring out the best of

747
00:45:57,950 --> 00:46:00,920
yourself for for this competition.
And I suppose there's also this

748
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,340
element of anybody who gets into
that competition is going to be

749
00:46:04,340 --> 00:46:07,910
nervous to start with as well as
they get settled into the format

750
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:11,210
and all of that as well.
And once they've riddled that out,

751
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:14,870
then you hopefully get the best
of them and that's the moment

752
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:16,880
that they shine Now definitely.
I mean,

753
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,230
some are usually pretty nervous,
especially the first the first day,

754
00:46:21,230 --> 00:46:26,120
the first day is a reality check
for them because they know they've

755
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,510
got 3.5 hours to do a challenge.
But time flies.

756
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:31,760
But there are two of them, so
technically they've got seven hours.

757
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,150
Yeah, but if they go a little
too light on their feet for the

758
00:46:35,150 --> 00:46:37,560
first half an hour,
those 30 minutes is 30 minutes

759
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,810
they won't have back. Yeah.
And I always say to them,

760
00:46:39,810 --> 00:46:42,990
you know off camera because you don't
always see through the editing how

761
00:46:42,990 --> 00:46:46,230
nice we are actually with the team.
Yeah. Quite believe it.

762
00:46:46,670 --> 00:46:50,160
I kind of make a point to gather them
all in the middle of the kitchen

763
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,790
and that's my first thing today.
The first minute is the one you will

764
00:46:53,790 --> 00:46:57,420
never get back, so do not waste it.
Yeah, we're spinning around or

765
00:46:57,420 --> 00:47:00,000
looking for a pan.
Or believe it or not,

766
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,000
somebody you know, have a cup of tea.
You know, they make sure the first

767
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,790
minute is spent making sure there
is hot water in their teapot and

768
00:47:05,790 --> 00:47:08,940
then having a cup of tea.
When Jerry and I see things like

769
00:47:08,940 --> 00:47:11,760
that,
we we boiling like like the kettle.

770
00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:15,900
We could put flipping tea for them
for sure because there is just

771
00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:18,600
enough time to do a good job.
There is enough time to do a

772
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,710
great job and there is just
enough time if something goes

773
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:25,380
wrong to do a good job still.
Yeah, everything after that

774
00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:28,500
becomes complicated. Yeah.
And that's that's what we make

775
00:47:28,530 --> 00:47:32,040
sure guys, guys, guys.
When we do the auditions in October

776
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,460
of all the teams, regardless if
they're going to get picked or not.

777
00:47:35,460 --> 00:47:38,910
I say to them, guys start practicing
now regardless if you are picked

778
00:47:38,910 --> 00:47:43,230
or not, start practicing now.
Every area you are weak for start

779
00:47:43,230 --> 00:47:46,860
practicing now because if you are
picked and when you are picked.

780
00:47:47,470 --> 00:47:51,340
That skill will help you to do
work on the development of your

781
00:47:51,340 --> 00:47:55,180
recipe we ask you to do and
it'll be if you haven't and wait

782
00:47:55,180 --> 00:47:59,470
only to find out it's a wasted
opportunity to better yourself.

783
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:02,710
Yeah. You might never be here again.
Never get the opportunity again.

784
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:05,110
Yeah. Yeah.
And then yeah, you try to serve the

785
00:48:05,110 --> 00:48:07,780
way when they are motivated as well.
But some do understand it,

786
00:48:07,780 --> 00:48:10,060
some don't. There you go.
Yeah, absolutely.

787
00:48:10,060 --> 00:48:12,670
So many questions I want to ask you,
but I'm very conscious,

788
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:17,050
conscious of time and that you
have probably 13 plus pans on the

789
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,590
go in the kitchen at the moment.
But I'm going to come back to

790
00:48:20,740 --> 00:48:24,430
the story, as it were.
Not something I always love to

791
00:48:24,430 --> 00:48:26,260
ask anyone.
Everyone that comes on the show

792
00:48:26,260 --> 00:48:31,180
is Do you have any funny stories
from your career so far?

793
00:48:31,180 --> 00:48:34,300
I'm sure many,
but stuff that's repeatable on air.

794
00:48:34,990 --> 00:48:38,080
Well, I do remember because
you've had a kindly did fill out

795
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:43,090
the form for me before there was
one around bagpipe music which.

796
00:48:43,210 --> 00:48:45,940
Yes, which really,
as you can hear from the accent,

797
00:48:47,020 --> 00:48:52,360
sparks an interest. Yes.
So I work usually for Christmas or

798
00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:56,480
I've been for the past few years
and there is a little tradition.

799
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,020
I mean, I usually at work we don't
play music because everybody's

800
00:49:00,020 --> 00:49:02,120
hundred percent focused.
It's a little bit of a Formula

801
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,040
One team.
You know, you're there to perform.

802
00:49:04,610 --> 00:49:07,850
We we talk to each other,
but music is a distraction.

803
00:49:07,850 --> 00:49:11,840
We need to focus on what we do.
Yeah, and stay strong there.

804
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:19,370
Except on Christmas Day. Okay.
On Christmas Day, turn the music

805
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:25,160
on and it's bagpipe morning with
all the bike pack, Scottish pipe

806
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,630
pack songs and and on and on.
And usually I played before the

807
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:34,130
service starts for about a couple of
hours. Quite loud. A couple of hours.

808
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,170
Yeah, a couple of hours.
I'm not sure I could deal with that.

809
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:42,200
I find I find half of the team
cope with it quite well. Yeah.

810
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:47,000
And the other half struggle a
little bit. Yeah.

811
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:51,320
I used to do that when I first joined
Le Manoir many, many, many years ago.

812
00:49:51,350 --> 00:49:57,740
We used to have the DVD players and
there was a hi fi in the in the chefs

813
00:49:57,740 --> 00:50:02,300
in the Kitchens office and we used to
play a DVD and there was a bagpipe

814
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:08,090
special Christmas and it was going
through the whole kitchen, not just

815
00:50:08,090 --> 00:50:11,420
the pastry through the whole kitchen.
And then I find that CD later on

816
00:50:11,420 --> 00:50:15,650
scratch completely with knives and so
on to make sure it wasn't working.

817
00:50:15,650 --> 00:50:19,880
But now those days there's no
there's no DVDs or or CDs anymore.

818
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:25,940
You can play it on Wi-Fi.
So obviously it's on for two hours.

819
00:50:25,940 --> 00:50:28,910
And I've always going to
remember my little French man,

820
00:50:29,180 --> 00:50:34,580
a young komiya had and he was
the quietest I've ever seen him.

821
00:50:34,580 --> 00:50:37,820
He was quiet naturally,
but this time he was like in a

822
00:50:37,820 --> 00:50:41,360
corner of the kitchen not moving.
He couldn't take it.

823
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,510
He was having a little tea in
the corner of his eye and it was

824
00:50:44,510 --> 00:50:47,330
just like but said nothing.
So eventually after two hours,

825
00:50:47,330 --> 00:50:51,010
we realized that he was completely
frustrated beyond anything because

826
00:50:51,010 --> 00:50:54,610
he couldn't take the noise the
bagpipe makes but always been

827
00:50:54,610 --> 00:50:58,060
part of our funny story.
We laughed about it, about it.

828
00:50:58,090 --> 00:51:02,380
But everybody knows now Christmas
Day morning there is at least a

829
00:51:02,380 --> 00:51:06,580
good hour, solid hour of not
Christmas music but bagpipe music,

830
00:51:06,970 --> 00:51:11,230
which I always find nice.
That reminds me of if you ever

831
00:51:11,230 --> 00:51:13,720
watched the SES program on
Channel four.

832
00:51:14,050 --> 00:51:19,120
It's a it's another reality TV show,
but one of the challenges that

833
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,450
they get them to do is they put
them in stress positions and

834
00:51:22,450 --> 00:51:26,980
they put thrash metal through.
I think a bagpipes for two hours

835
00:51:26,980 --> 00:51:29,600
would do the same to me. Yeah.
Yeah it would. It would.

836
00:51:29,620 --> 00:51:32,800
It would. I completely get it.
But it's part of our tradition,

837
00:51:33,010 --> 00:51:37,150
you know, the Russians must in a
pastry kitchen at least Christmas Day

838
00:51:37,150 --> 00:51:42,220
they're going to be some bagpipe.
Get used to it. Yeah. Fantastic.

839
00:51:42,250 --> 00:51:44,950
Well, that's it. Great stuff.
Well, I mean, as I said,

840
00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:48,310
I'm sure there's many, many more
things that we could talk about.

841
00:51:48,610 --> 00:51:51,650
I'd massively appreciate you coming
on the show and telling your story

842
00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:56,420
and keep flying the flag because
I think you you definitely emit

843
00:51:56,420 --> 00:52:00,740
positivity for this industry and
we need that everywhere.

844
00:52:00,740 --> 00:52:05,300
And it's it's just great to get
time with people like you who just

845
00:52:05,300 --> 00:52:08,180
live and breathe this industry.
So thank you so much you very

846
00:52:08,180 --> 00:52:10,470
much for your time and good luck
to everybody. Good man.

847
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,610
Take care. And there we have it.
It was wonderful to get some time

848
00:52:13,610 --> 00:52:16,760
with Benoit and what a story he has.
I hope you enjoyed this dessert

849
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,040
to finish off your digital Le
Manoir meal this week.

850
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,650
And what a way to bring the
curtain down on season three,

851
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:24,020
but you won't have to wait long as
I'll be back in April with more fun

852
00:52:24,020 --> 00:52:26,630
and shenanigans from the wonderful
world of hospitality as well as a

853
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:29,660
few new things for you to enjoy.
Thanks so much for listening and

854
00:52:29,660 --> 00:52:30,440
I'll see you then.