#185 - Hospitality Meets Shereen Ritchie - Leadership, Laughter, and Learning

And by God, am I giddy today, because I. Welcome to the show Shereen

Ritchie. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited.

Fantastic. How are you? I'm really good, thank you. Living the

dream. Work is keeping me busy, and when work isn't keeping me busy,

my two children are. But no, I am buoyant and

positive. And as I say, super happy to be here. So, Phil, thanks so much

for inviting me. My absolute pleasure. There's actually many reasons why I wanted to

get you on the show, one of which is kind of the overriding one for

me at the moment, is that in the face of all the crap that's going

on in the world, is that you guys seem to be moving forward.

And so I want to spread the word that business

potential is still there. It's just a question of, I

suppose, knowing who you are, what you want to do, and how you're going to

get there. Yeah, it's so important. And this is obviously the topic of

conversation. I go to a lot of events, I get to meet lots of amazing

leaders and people in our industry, and it is the

topic. I think what's really important to identify is that

within hospitality, you have different sections. So you've got your

entry level, which I class as your sweet treats, your grab and go. Then that

leads into QSR, which then leads into your casual dining, which then leads

into your high end. And I think what we've seen, if you look at the

2008 2009 recession, for instance, if you've got money and

you're going to these high end sexy fish bacchanalias, you will

always have money to go to. These places where we tend to see is

that if you're going to the high end, they stay there. Casual

dining, people will still eat at casual dining, but they'll just eat less and they're

just more price conscious. And potentially, rather than going out to a casual

dining restaurant and spending 80 pounds, they'll go to a Lyon,

for instance, and spend 35 pounds and try and get the

same energy, the same experience that they had, but just for less

money, or they will, as I say, do it less frequently. People

that would go into a QSR, potentially, again, will go less or bring in their

own lunch. But people from QSR have people from casual dining move

down and sweet treats. People would always find time for

sweet treats and for gifting and to feel good about themselves. So

there's different sectors. So I'm in the sweet treat QSR grab and

go space, which I feel is a good space. To be in, versus

potentially some of the other challenging spaces. But also, when it comes to growth,

our units, if you don't know funds from home. Actually, let me explain. Well,

I was going to say, probably should tell the world, actually, what it. Is that

you do. Should have started with that. Well, that was

my fault. I just went straight into it. But, yes, probably tell the world who

you are and what you do. I'm CEO of Buns from home. So

buns from home was started in lockdown by our genius

founder, Barney Goff. So he was marketing manager when Covid hit, and he moved

back in with his mum. And he had studied, when he was 19 years old,

in Paris rotisserie for a year. So he'd never really done anything with this skill

set. And when Covid hit, he was like, right, I've got all this time, I'm

gonna. I'm gonna bake. I love baking. I'm gonna use this skill that I've learned.

So he started baking, and then he started sort of flyering his neighbors, saying,

do you like some buns? You know, have some buns. And George

Osborne, who was chancellor of the exchequer at the time,

lived a couple of dollars down from him. And it was like his third or

fourth customer and started ordering buns, started taking them into Westminster.

So we sort of say, you know, Barney told his mum, his mum told the

neighbors, and the neighbours then told the world, and it become this social sensation. And

before Barney knew it, he was baking morning, noon and night. He was sleeping while

the buns would prove. And he created this enterprise

of this network of everyone buying buns off of him. So he borrowed some money

off of his mum and he got his first site in Notting Hill. And then

it really went. Went on from there. We now have 15 sites. So I

joined the brand a year ago and we had seven sites since then.

We're now at number 15. And we've got a strong opening pipeline. So

we sell all different types of buns, cinnamon buns, dessert

buns, savory buns, double baked buns. We have a core range

of around 15 items. We then have a weekend special. So every

single weekend, only available that weekend, then we don't do it again. We do a

weekend special. We innovate at a speed and a rate that I don't know

anyone else on the market that does. So. So this innovation is really important to

us. One, because it means we can be nimble and agile and be on trends.

It means we can keep things exciting for our social. I mean, we have

this massive lol following that every Friday. Want to know what you know? Our weekend

special is going to be. The teams love it, they get excited by it, it's

really fun for them. And yeah, it's just a great addition. And this is obviously

something that Barney created very early on. So yeah, that is what we do. We

do everything out of one dough. So we're quite simplistic when it comes

to scalability. We can fit into a space that is a hundred

square foot up until 8900 square foot. So when

taking me back to the point I made earlier around the economics, a

casual dining restaurant. For those that don't really know square footage, a casual dining

restaurant would tend to be 2000 to 4000 square foot.

Whereas if I'm going into a 4000 square foot, everything becomes

cheaper. You need less material to fit it out. There's less rent because it's

smaller, you need less labor because you can't fit all the people

in. So it makes the economic model quite good.

So I think when it comes to rapid growth, at the moment

we're able to grow rapidly. So we aim to open five a

quarter. So because of the way it works with

landlords and by the time you've got legal, signed and things, you know,

sometimes can be delayed or we move forward, we sort of do it by half

year. So it's ten every half year. So we've opened three so far. We've got

eight more to open by mid year. And then for the second half

of the year we'll be opening another ten. And yeah, it's super fun. We get

to focus on stuff like doing it as sustainably as possible. We're looking at doing

B Corps. All of these things get to interact and it's all things that the

whole team really care about. So it is fast paced,

but it doesn't feel like work, if that makes sense. So we're really, really lucky

that we are enjoying the ride that we are on. But yeah, we're expanding really

quickly, but our model allows us to do so. If I had a capex of,

you know, 500 grand a unit, we certainly wouldn't be expanding at this rate

because it's. It's low capex, low labor, low rents.

We're able to move really quickly. And where we are quite nimble and agile, we're

able to expand a fast rate, I think.

Yeah, well, I mean, there's a. I suppose

like Ed Sheeran, I'm a

fan as well. Welcome on to Ed Sheeran in a second, I'm sure. But I

did a foodie tour actually in notting hill. Fantastic experience

that was just uh, nipping in and out of places of your lesser known

place. And actually this was way before you guys were, I suppose, in the, the

rapid expansion that you are now. But it was in Notting Hill and I think

that's, that was your original site and didn't know the story until the guy who

was leading our foodie tour took us in for, for a bun.

And uh, there was already a queue at the time to, to get in. And

then he told us that this whole thing blew up in the pandemic, basically

through social. And I was like, this is just, it's remarkable.

And I think the thing that I love

more than anything is that effectively what you're doing is, as you say, you've

got one dough that maybe you're zhuzhing up a little bit

in different ways, but in actual fact that keeps things really simple, but allows you

the flexibility to think laterally as

well. Yeah, I remember when I met our

chairman and lead investor now, Robbie Miller. When I met

him, very first thing I said to him was, the simplicity

is what makes it incredible because being simple is very, very

hard. There isn't a leader in the business, especially in

somewhere where you've got more menu items and you've got lots of drinks and coffee

and you know, potentially things the instinct is to add to it. Oh, add milkshakes,

their sell, add iced coffee that will sell, add sandwiches that would sell. Add this,

add this, add this. But actually keeping something so simplistic,

being a master at what you do, being best in class at what you do,

and just focusing on that, it's actually very, very hard to do.

So the fact that that is what Barney had done and just focused

obsessively on what he did well, didn't let any of the other noise, didn't look

at competitors, didn't go, oh, they're making money out of that, or they're doing this,

I should do that. Just really focused on what he was doing. And that

is what we've carried through. I've been in brands previously and I know leaders in

brands that are trying to do almost little formats, little versions. I used to be

managing director of Leon and we had spent a lot of time before

COVID and over Covid looking at a little Leon format. You know, how do we

get out of a 2000 square foot space into a 500 square foot space? How

do we half the menu? And when you've got something, it's very hard to cut

it down. Oh, you can't take wraps because people like wraps. You can't take rice

boxes because people like rice boxes. You can't get rid of fries because it's fries.

So, actually, how do you create something small? Whereas when you have something to

begin with that is so scaled back and simplistically, as long as you don't mess

around with it, just be best in class at what you do, source the best

ingredients, you know, within the product that you have. And that

is what makes it very, very special. So, yeah, it's very, very simplistic

and that is the beauty in it. Without question. Without question. Well, we'll talk

more about where you're going and what you're doing, but I'm conscious of the fact

that we've just gone straight into this today and we're ten minutes in and we

haven't even approached your story in any way, shape or form, so probably time

to get stuck into that. So take us all the way back to the very

beginning of your career. How did you get into

hospitality in the first place? How did I get into. Yeah, we have. We've done

this backwards, but we'll start with now how I got into hospitality. So

I didn't come for a salubrious background. I grew

up with my mum. That is my rock and I idolize her and my

stone and she always will be in. In the care system. When I was growing

up, my biological father was quite violent, so we managed to get away from

him on my 7th birthday. So my mum had taken, obviously,

all that stress on herself. I wouldn't change my childhood for me, I would change

it for my mum, but I certainly wouldn't change it for me. But I had

come from a place where potentially, it could be said that my stars were

written, that I wouldn't make much of myself and that I was not really going

to become anything. I didn't have any real education. I loved to

dance and I loved to sing. I wanted to be an actress. So I used

to go up to London and dance at Pineapple Studios. From the

age of around 13, I did this and that was before anyone knew what Pineapple

studios was. And it was just the best place to go and dance. So I

would go there and do dancing and then by the time I turned 15, they'd

put up the cost and I couldn't afford to go. So I was like, right,

I'm going to need to get a job so I can bunk off school to

go to Pineapple Studios to learn dancing. And I went into

TGI Fridays at Lakeside and I met a manager and I said look,

I'm only 15 but I'm going to be 16 soon. I wasn't 16 soon, it

was like ten months away or something. But I'm like, I'm going to be 16

really soon, if you've got anything, I'll do anything. And he says well

this is a day when you could pay cash in hand. He's like look, I

can give you a cash in hand job and you can clean tables as a

busser. I was like brilliant, I'll do it. So joined TGI

Fridays, which was never meant to be long term, and I adored it,

I adored the community, I adored the family, I'm still very good friends

with a lot of people that I worked with on my very first day at

TGI Fridays all them years ago and I ended up staying at TGI Fridays for

ten years. I've travelled the country with them. I lived in Manchester, I lived in

Birmingham, Solihull, quite a lot of openings up and down the country

and absolutely I say it now, I bleed red and white. They

really taught me and I owe a huge amount of gratitude to TGI

Fridays. And also I always say this, there was a manager who

people in the industry will know, someone called Jason Cotter who was MD of

Oldenstein and has more recently gone and moved over to Itzu, who is just the

most incredible human. And I was a challenge Phil,

you won't believe this, but I was a challenge as a teenager to manage.

No, I was a manage Phil. And Mister

Potter didn't sack me many times when he probably should have done put up with

me and nurtured me and you know, really sort of took me under

his wing and was a, was a mentor to me at a very, very early

stage and he didn't even realize he was doing it. It's just Jason's nature and

now I know him as an adult and obviously as a colleague and

leader in the industry, but yeah, back in the day I have a lot to

thank him for, so. And that's where I started my journey. It was

in TGI's and then I've been in TGIs for ten years and was like, right,

I've done a lot of growing up, probably now time to move on. And I

ended up going into pr for a bit. I went and worked in seven dials

in Covent Garden and did a bit in pr and then I moved over, got

the opportunity to go and work for TfL on the underground.

So I actually worked for a subcontractor called Tube line, and I became a contracts

director. So I worked there for four years. I did night shift.

I led around a thousand workmen that were on the project

and I did that for a good few years and then I was

like, I love this. The project had ended and they were like, would you like

to go on? I think Aldgate was the next project. Would you like to go

to Aldgate? I've got quite a lot of health and safety certification. And I was

like, no, I think I want to go back into hospitality. So I then went

and worked at La Sagranis. So I joined Lasagranas, was there for

five years. I left about 18 months after the sale to CDG.

And my journey with Lassegranis was amazing. I looked after London upwards,

so I would fly to school Scotland. I was in York, Harrogate, Liverpool, Manchester.

So that was a regional role. Yeah, yeah, that was regional.

So everything from, from London upwards, so that was great fun.

And then I left to go to Leon, so I joined

Leon and what a whirlwind. I was there for four years. It

feels like 14. And, yeah, we. We went to America.

We had seven franchise partners that were all amazing. We did cookbooks.

I put Leon into Sainsbury's with the team. That was

amazing. Over Covid, we did feed NHS and feed

Britain, which were two huge projects. Feed NHS lasted

for the whole of COVID and, you know, quite, quite, quite a long time

afterwards, to be fair. So feed NHS saw us feed

101 hospitals, over twelve trusts nationwide,

and that brought together a lot of brands. I

think it was over 50 brands in the end, and leaders that were all working

together to make sure we could get food and supply chain, the NHS

and support the incredible work that they were doing. So that really was an

experience. And it's strange because over Covid there was lots of talks and we were

doing a lot to publicize, you know, and try and support and help in any

way we could. But I always said, you know, rainbows come out of rain. It

was a terrible time. I am. I am a very optimistic person. I'm a

realistic person, don't get me wrong, but I am an optimistic person. So I was

always trying to look for the rainbows and now I've ended up full circle at

a brand that was born out of COVID So I found my very own rainbow

that was born in Covid, which is obviously buns from home. Yeah,

well, a lot to unpack here, for

sure. I've been making notes as we go along because there's a

few things I kind of want to explore. First of all, we kind of have

to go back to TGI's because, I mean, obviously, that was

your hospitality grounding, I guess, was

that. I mean, that was obviously born out of a desire to. To get

a job, basically. Was there a moment whereby you

were in the role and you were developing with them where you. Where you started

to think, yes, this is. This is the place for, like, I have found

my home now in terms of hospitality. 100%.

100%. I remember I would end up missing auditions

to work shifts because I just wanted to work. I just wanted to clean

tables and then went on to be a host. I then was a dessert wheatie.

I then did some expo in the kitchen, and there was a bar back. Like,

I think I did every single role within my first three years, and I just

adored it. I adored the people. I adored the culture, and I

realized it was something very, very special. And I think those years

really molded me. And, you know, all the values

that they used to have, things like swan theory and the Nike

theory, just do it. And they're very famous for their braces and all of their

badges. I still have my braces and I, with my badges. And, you know, if

you've got a wow badge, which was walk on water because you've done something to

make a guest stay, like that meant something. Getting a walk with that badge, no

matter how many times you got one, it really meant something. And, you

know, the training was, you know, now I realize how amazing back in the day

their training was. You know, and there wasn't a bar manual in casual dining that

isn't based off of a TGI Friday's bar manual. You know, they were

doing bartender competitions where, you know, the whole

company would come together, people from America would fly over, and they really

were setting me up to success in how to

run a culture, how to lead a culture, and how to truly live it. You

know, I always turn around and say, in any business, I've been on values and

culture, not something we write on the wall in a head office. I mean, I

haven't even got a head office at the moment, so I couldn't even if I

wanted to. You're in it at the moment. I don't even have a head office

at funds from home, but if I had one, it isn't something that I could

write on the office wall, because that isn't what values and culture are. It's something

that you live and breathe. And as I say, I've said it many, many times,

I believe red and white. And I a huge amount of gratitude to the

leaders and TGI Fridays when I was growing up

in it because they really moulded me and taught me a lot

of lessons and a lot of things that potentially I wouldn't have learned and

I wouldn't have seen. And they definitely helped me develop to

be a better version of myself. And I then also used

that as a leader. Now fast forward 25, 30

years that I now have that responsibility.

You know, at the end of the day, it could have been viewed, but I

was just some kid that was from the wrong side of town, working cash in

hand, cleaning tables. Not really that important

potentially could have been the view. And I think it's so important

nowadays that when we look at entry level roles, these are potentially the

leaders of the future. I am telling you now, Jason had no idea that I

was going to become the leader that I am now. He had absolutely no idea.

He looked after me and mentored me just because that's a human that he was.

And he had a responsibility for me and he just wanted to do his very

best. And I take that now as a leader, and I take that responsibility

seriously. You know, Leon, I had two and a half thousand people at one point,

you know, and I. I took that on. Those two and a half thousand people

were my responsibility. And I had to make sure that through the business,

we did everything we could to emulate the experiences and improve

on the experiences, you know, that we see in hospitality that are

great, shining examples. We just wanted to be best in class. We just wanted to

do right by people. And it isn't always that people have to stay in this

industry. You know, there are people that use us. You know, they're studying to be

doctors, and, you know, they have summer jobs with us. And that's a great thing

for hospitality. You don't have to join hospitality forever. But also, that being

said, I am on a massive campaign to have

hospitality seen as a real industry and a real career

where people can really make a difference. You know, that's why I love America. When

we went over to America with Leon, what I loved was how serious hospitality

was taken as a career and that kids in America would grow up saying, I

want to be a supply chain director. You know, in this country, not so much.

You know, kids don't turn around and be like, I want to be head of

maintenance. It isn't necessarily something that is on their radar.

And I just think hospitality is such an amazing place where you

don't have to have an education. Absolutely. Having an education is amazing, but

it. If you haven't got an education because of certain circumstances, it doesn't

mean that you can't become somebody and work really, really hard. And that's

where hospitality is great. If you work hard, if you learn and you pay

attention and you will get back what you put in. And

that's always my experience over all the brands that I've worked

in and had the pleasure of being part of. Yeah, well,

I mean, I think the thing about that is as well, is that you're kind

of. You're almost a case in point to your own argument as well, in terms

of you were actively trying to bunk off school, you were saying,

so I. Hope my mum doesn't hear this because there's so much

she still doesn't know. She doesn't realize she'd

have a fit, honestly, that I was bunking off and going into London, honestly. So,

yeah, there's still stuff that she doesn't know, but that is just the truth. I

used to, yeah, bunk of school to go and dance twice a week and then

I would go into school for three days. But I. This, and I might

be way above my station to say this, but I think that in itself

is a massively important message, because not every one of us is destined

to be great in a school environment. Everybody's destined to go on

and get a university degree or whatever that

education might look like. And you could argue that actually the greatest education

that exists is life experience in any case. So, you know,

maybe there are things that you might have done differently, knowing what you know now,

but maybe not, you know, it's just like. It's, in itself, should not

be the barrier as to why somebody cannot aspire to be,

you know, something. Yeah. And I think that's the point. If I had been in

a situation that, you know, people say to me, other than obviously being an

actress, if you couldn't be in hospitality, if hospitality didn't exist, what would you do?

And I go, looking back now, I'd quite like to be a lawyer, you know,

and maybe in another world I would have studied and gone into law, because I

find that very interesting and done something like that. But, you know, I

just think it's really important that you can change your stars.

And that's what my mum grew up telling me. No matter where you are, you

can change your stars. You are accountable for what happens in your life going

forward. You know, people say when there's trauma in life, some people are like, ah,

use that trauma to make you stronger. You shouldn't need to have trauma to make

you stronger. I just want to make that clear. But also, some people are like,

oh, is that trauma? You know, it will be with you forever and you'll never

be able to move forward. And that also isn't true. So I. I think

it's. The message has to be that you own your destiny and that

you can change your future, and life is hard. Right. I sit here

as the job title of CEO certainly

doesn't make me any less human than any other person on the planet, and it

certainly doesn't mean I've got all of the answers. It doesn't make me

superhuman. It doesn't make me better than anyone. My goodness. Absolutely not. I am

just a human. I'm a mum of two. I have a two year old and

a four year old. I find life as tough as every other human.

I feel the pinch points that every other human feels,

so it doesn't make you immune. But I just think if you focus,

have a long term vision, work hard, treat people how you want to

be treated, it will all get rewarded back to you. And as I say, you

can change your future. And that's where hospitality is amazing, because, yes, if you come

from a background where you're not. I'm massively dyslexic. Massively dyslexic.

And everyone has supported me on my journey, and I've learned to manage it, and

I've learned some really great development and some great skills along the way. But where

I am so dyslexic, like things like spelling? Like. Yeah, like, back in the day,

a spelling test. I remember going to a job interview once and being given a

spelling test. I just didn't make it through from that point because they gave me

a spelling test, and I was like, I'm never gonna pass this. And I could

have done the role. I was very competent. I just couldn't spell. So

hospitality, you know, never given me a spelling test. They've never judged me.

They've always worked with me and gone, right, okay, this is your learning type,

and this is how we're gonna move forward. And it isn't. I'm obviously an extrovert.

You may not be able to tell that, but I'm an extrovert. I hadn't picked

that up, to be honest. But, you know, it isn't just

extroverted people that have thespian backgrounds that can join

hospitality, which I think is a little bit of a myth. You know, there are

some amazing introverted people that are very analytical,

very detailed, you know, and they're not just in the finance part of the business.

You know, we've got some amazing bakers and there is a skill to baking, and

it's really technical at points, you know, that are so

technical and they love it. And they just sort of go into the kitchen and

you see them in their, you know, in their element. And I'm just like, this

is brilliant that so many different types of people can come into hospitality and find

a home without question. Sorry, you caught me with a mouthful of coffee in

my mouth there. Thankfully, it was in my mouth. Yeah, no, absolutely. No

doubt. I mean, this is one of the joys, I think, of the industry is

that. I think the perception sometimes is that, you know, you're either

a waiter or you're a chef or you're a bartender, and that's pretty much it.

But in actual fact, there's this whole raft of other stuff

that, as you say, in this country, I just don't think is that well

known. You know, like, literally you can think of any

job in any sector that is. And that job probably pretty much exists in

hospitality somewhere as well. Yeah, it's really true. Like, as you say,

you have supply chain finance, food marketing strategy.

It, like, it's a huge,

huge part of our economy. I just don't understand why

people don't put that together and go, oh, this is a, you know, this is

a real career, this something. I think we're getting better. I had the privilege

of giving a lecture to some students at Guildford University

about a month ago, and they were incredible. Like, they are the future. And I

was talking to them afterwards and a few of them have reached out and I

look at it, I'm like, this is so amazing. And this is where it's brilliant

that they're going to university and they're learning so much and they understand that also,

you know, coming to do work experience and getting real life experience will

just help, you know, hone their experience and their skill set. So

that's really exciting as well. So that I think it's getting better. But, yeah, it

just. It's just a shame that this country doesn't

view our industry the way that

some of us do. Yeah. Yet, yeah, we're on

it. We are on it. And, like, there is some amazing. There's some

amazing, you know, charities out there. Only a pavement

away led by Greg Mannon, which I think is an amazing charity. And he called

it only a pavement away, because we are all only a pavement away.

And I think the older you get and the more wisdom you get, you realize

that life is hard and external, things can happen and we are

all only a pavement away. Especially from my upbringing, I very much feel that's

relevant to me, that my life could have taken a very different turn. I could

have been in a situation where I've made some bad choices that would have led

me down a different road. So only a pavement away tackles

homelessness. People that have been in the prison system, people that

have been in the army, people that have suffered medical issues,

breakdowns, strokes, anything like that, by getting people into

hospitality and giving them a chance and giving them a chance to move

on with their life. And I just think it's such a wonderful organization. And

it isn't just only pavement away. There are several organisations that do the same thing

of trying to make a positive difference. And I think that's what makes hospitality so

special, is that everyone in the world has a relationship with food,

right? Everybody. Everyone has a memory, be it a

birthday or a wedding or a celebration or Eid

or Christmas or Easter or whatever it may be.

Everyone has a relationship with food and a memory with food. So you

can make, you know, joyous occasions, you can bring happiness

by food. And I think people being part of that, it is stressful at

times. We all know hospitality can be quite stressful, but actually the swing to

that is you get to see someone spend their 80th birthday with you

and, you know, those photos are going to be around forever in that family and

you were part of that and you created those memories. So it is something that's

very, very special. So, although I say, you know, we don't save lives, and working

with the NHS sort of really gave me an insight into another industry and another

world. But we. What we do is important.

I will still maintain that we said it during COVID We

almost become the full emergency service in trying to get food to everybody, because what

we do in our industry is very, very important to

everybody. I had somebody, I think it was Eddie Tanous

from Rotana hotels in the Middle east on the show, and

he classified this as we might not save lives, but we definitely

heal the experiences that we give people

when they come into our businesses, whether it's, you know, they've just had a

crappy day and what they're really craving is a world class cinnamon bun

that has a healing quality to that person in that

moment and or, you know, whether it's somebody who saved up

half a year of wages so that they can have one night at the Dorchester

or something like that. You know, these things have the power

in such an under talked about way, I

think it is. And it's in part of, as you say, in all of our

lives and it's in different ways. And, yeah, it just makes it

very, very special. And there isn't a person on the planet, as I say, that

won't have a food memory. Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, I've gone all Billy

Conley here and just gone like back to your story.

We were still, I'm still unpacking your story. So we're still at TGi's.

I want to talk about Jason. Not specifically Jason, but actually

you said that you were quite a challenging employee. And I guess this

is the secret, I suppose, to having

mentors in your life. Right? Because I think the secret to a

really great mentor is recognizing that actually what you really need in businesses are

people who challenge you. But it's then about honing the way that

they challenge. And it sounds like you maybe had that

with Jason in your early days. Yeah,

absolutely. I always, as I say, extrovert, always, you

know, been outspoken. I've not been afraid to sort of stand up for something that

I believe in. But, you know, obviously as a

17, 1819 year old, you know, woman

learning, you know, becoming an adult and being in an industry that

I loved and I was in a brand that I loved, you feel that ownership,

you feel that you have a right to have a say on everything and

absolutely probably at times didn't deliver my opinion in the best possible

way. And Jason would always take the time to say, your point is probably

correct, but your delivery was shocking. So you've lost the point. So let's have a

talk about that. And then also he would always take the time to understand because

obviously from my point of view, so when I was, you know,

a busser, I couldn't understand why X, Y and Z have been put into place.

What I hadn't realized was the operational side of the business and how wider

business works. And Jason, rather than saying, that's just the way it is, Shereen, we're

putting this process in, it's just the way it is, he would explain to me

and he would say, look, Sherene, this has got a p and l implication. I

remember him explaining to me like, what a profit and lost, you know, what it

meant and how it would run through. So I remember being 18 years old and

I knew, I understood how a p and l of a business roughly works because

he would talk through. He would talk it through with me and why, the decisions

he would make. So I think he always gave me the why. And I think

that's probably the biggest learning that I ever took from Jason, is that I always

try and give people the why because it's important for them to know, and it's

important for them to understand, because one day they're going to be the leaders, and

then they need to pass that knowledge down. And the more knowledge you have, the

more you understand the workings of a business. You know, a hospitality

business appears sometimes from the outside to be quite easy.

You know, there are tv shows on this, right, where people have potentially come from

different, you know, industries and opened up a restaurant or opened up a bar, and

then they've met challenges, because it isn't as easy as it sometimes looks from

the outside to run a hot business. And Jason would always explain that in

a really great way. And as I say, as a teenager, and I was a

teenager, you know, at the time, trying to set the world on fire

and put my mark and be like, no, you can't do this. This isn't fair.

This isn't right. And Jason's like, calm down. This is this.

And then obviously, things that mattered to me

didn't matter, really, to the business. What section I got as a waitress. I don't

want that section. I want this section. Why is it this person always gets that

section? It's not fair. But to me, it matters. And he never, ever

discounted that. He never turned around and said, oh, shereen, just have whatever section you've

got. He would always be like, right, okay, what process can I put in place

to make sure everyone feels it's fair, everyone gets a shot. Do we need a

certification? You know, on certain areas? And he always looked at it very

pragmatically and very process led and took emotion out of it, and I was

very emotional. So that's why I think why it worked, because he would just

say, remove your emotions, Shireen, and let's look at this logically. So.

And it wasn't just Jason. There were lots of amazing leaders in TGIs that

all works the same way as Jason. And it wasn't just Jason.

But as I say, Jason is just the one that got stuck with me.

Yeah, but I think that, I mean, that demonstrates real leadership, though, doesn't

it? Because the last thing you need when you're in your formative career years is

somebody just to say, the reason why we do this is because I

said so. That's the thing that switches you off, right?

Especially if you're one who likes to challenge and understand.

And this is the thing for me, is that it could be that time

in somebody's career is so critical in terms of whether

we keep them as potentially amazing employees or amazing people

that can go on to do amazing things in the industry and beyond, or whether

they get disillusioned quickly and go, well, this is, they just mark the

industry then with the same brush and go, this is not for me,

it's so critical in terms of how we move things forward. Yeah,

as you say, it really is. And I think especially now, I mean, I look

at, when I was a teenager, I look at teenagers nowadays and there's

so much more clued up in some ways, and they want to know

more and they want to progress quicker and they want a development plan and they

want to know. And I'm sure I look back and there are things, you know,

that could have been better. You know, that I'm not saying that TGI's is perfect,

but it was a brilliant base. And as I say nowadays,

it's just so important that we take in all of

these, you know, the next generation and show them what we can be and show

them our best version. Now, you don't see your best version all the time. Everyone

makes mistakes. Everyone drops the ball in every single business.

But all you can do is, you know, just do your best to be a

better version of yourself. Put processes in place and focus on people and

culture. You know, people are the most important thing in our industry. Without

people, it doesn't work. And that really has to be what drives

everything. And a lot of it isn't a, it isn't rocket science.

You know, look after people, ask the team members what they want. Don't assume.

Someone said to me the other day in an interview, they were like, oh, what?

What do your team like? What you putting in for your team? And I was

like, well, I'm asking them what they want because I don't know what a 20

year old wants. I'd love to think that I'm young and trendy. I'm absolutely not.

Very much not. I try and work Instagram every day and realize I'm not young

and trendy. How do stories even work?

I had to message my market manager and I strategically, I

know what we want to put out and I know how we should do it,

but how it physically works. And when I'm going on to try and look at

stuff and I'm like, can you just send it to me on WhatsApp, please, because

WhatsApp I'm good with brilliant. Yeah.

I suppose this is also what becoming a CEO actually becomes as well.

It's not about you knowing how to do everything. It's about having people

around you who really know what they're doing and then getting the best out of

them. Oh, God. Absolutely. My biggest advice to

anyone that is a leader in any sense, is employ people that

are smarter than you. Absolutely. And realize and allow people the

autonomy to have their superpowers. For

instance, my people director, Claire Kennedy has the most amazing people

superpower. I don't interfere. I nudge and guide when I need to. That's what I'm

here to do. But she's awesome. Stuart, my finance director,

absolutely incredible. Like, go do what you do. It's your superpower. That's

why you're here, because, you know, I can't do what you do. And I think

it's okay to say that out loud. I think that's probably one of my biggest

learnings in life, is growing up at my entry level

leader stage. I always wanted. I thought that

being a good leader meant knowing everything and having all the answers. So

you see leaders, and I was one of those leaders at the very beginning stages.

I would probably almost shout people down and be like, yeah, that's good, but. But

this is what we're going to do. Not because I didn't want to listen to

them, because I thought being a good leader meant that, you know,

everything and that you have all the best ideas. And that's what makes me great

when actually very much it's the opposite. Being a good leader is

letting everyone else have the good ideas, leading and supporting and just nudging and

guiding. And you don't need to be the person with all the superpowers because that

is impossible. You need to have the team that have all the superpowers and

you need to support and nurture them. So that was obviously probably my biggest

learning, which I think most leaders would say it tends to

be. It's how humans sort of work. That tends to be the leadership cycle.

When you go into leadership, it's human nature to sort of want to know everything

and, you know, this is what I can do. But, yeah, that's probably one of

my biggest learnings. And that. And thinking I was

indispensable. Another learning. When I was younger, I remember thinking

in certain roles, potentially or in certain businesses, it will never

function without me. I'm indispensable. No one could ever replace me in

what I do. And then, like, you leave, or you leave a site and you

move somewhere else and you're like, it all crashed down. Not that you want it

to, not in that way, but, you know, I. Know what you mean. You know

that you're indispensable. And then you look and it's like, oh, they've just had a

record week. They're not. I'm not indispensable. I'm not indispensable at all.

No one is indispensable. Not any person. And the higher up the chain you get,

the less. In some ways, the less. I always say in the business, I am

the least important person in buns from home. If you took me out of buns

from home, it would run. It run. You know, if you took out the directorship,

the senior leadership team, it would run. If you took out all of the

bakers, it would stop immediately. Yeah, yeah. If you took

out casual dining, all of the waiters and waitresses, it would stop

immediately. So it really is understanding who the important people are in the

business and who make the business. Yeah. I had somebody just the other day actually

classify. When you become a CEO, leader or whatever, actually your

job is, is about working towards making yourself

redundant. And I thought that's quite, that's an interesting perspective,

but I kind of get it. Like, it's about, as you've just said,

like, if you, and, you know, I don't know whether you're happy for us to

air all of this in public, but you take yourself out of that business right

now and it would carry. It would carry on in some form.

Now, there's obviously things that you've got your head in day to day that

would be affected by that. And that's, you know, that's probably a lot around

future strategy and things like that. But I quite liked, I quite liked

the concept of actually leadership should be about working towards making yourself

redundant. And that's what I think the best leader is. I

think any leader, if you go on holiday, and that's always how I think people

should judge. If you go on holiday and the world falls down, it doesn't mean

that you, oh, look how important, how indispensable I am. It means you haven't done

a good job. It means you need to work on, you

know, putting process in place, putting team or training or

something. So that doesn't happen. If I go on holiday for two weeks, unless

there was something out of the ordinary that happened, the business should just run absolutely

fine. And of course I'll be on the phone, but that should run absolutely fine.

And yes, you know, as a CEO and a leader, you know, my job to

deliver for the ball is obviously the finances and then it's a strategy and it's

things like allowing the team and freeing up the time to be able to focus

on sustainability or to be able to focus on giving back. And you know,

when my people director says to me, right, I want every single team member to

be able to have a paid day, to go and work for a charity and

do some voluntary work that I make that, you know, and I facilitate that with

the board and that that can happen. That's what I'm there to do. I, you

know, the team are there to, they run the day to

day, you know, they, they are absolutely qualified and skilled and that's the way it

should be. Employ people that are smarter than you. Yeah,

absolutely. Right. Back to your story again, TGI Fridays for ten years,

just very quickly skirt over the roles that you, how

you developed in that ten years. What were the roles that you had? Oh

crikey. So I did, I think every single role in

TGI Fridays it feels like. So I did,

oh, I did bussing, hosting expo

kitchen, pot wash bar management,

NSo manager, NSO trainer. Yeah, I think

that was it. Got you. And so what was it then? Because it was at

that point, wasn't it, that you then moved over into PR? So

yeah, I went and worked in PR, I'd been in TGI Fridays, I took a

sabbatical, I went to Australia for a little while. I did take a sabbatical within

that ten years when I was around 21. But I've been at TGI Fridays for.

Ten years, as everybody should, by the way, because

I did the same, I did it at 23. I think

the greatest experience, I was amazing. I went to Australia for a year, I got

working visa, I went straight back into TJ Fridays, I think three days after

I returned to the UK. They were amazing, they supported me, they were like, yay,

go do it. This was before, like, you didn't have Facebook and that at the

time I'm very old, so you didn't have Facebook and that at the time. So

I remember I used to ring once a month the store on a Saturday morning

and speak to whoever was there and they always knew like on the first Saturday

of every month I would ring them and yes, I went back to Lakeside

where I'd started my journey after my time in

Australia, after ten years, it was time for me to

leave and it's okay to say that if I'd stayed at

TGI's, I certainly wouldn't be a CEO right now. I'd learn a lot

there. I have a lot to thank them for. But I was ready to leave

and it was time for me to see and expand my

growth elsewhere. So I'd always liked the idea of PR. So I went and

worked for a PR company called Street Printhead and

I at the time still had some contacts, so we were doing some stuff with.

There was a tv show called so you think you could dance and it was

a Saturday night tv show, like an X Factor style tv show. I remember

it, yeah. So I've got them

the big contract to do like the pr for the, for the, for

the show. And on the back of it they sold company. So I sort of

did myself out of a job by getting that contract. But I

worked there, I think it was around a year, and that was great, seeing a

marketing side of the business and the PR side of the business. And I didn't

actually realize that the stuff that I was doing with Street PR

I've really used in later life, especially in

places like Leon, when leading the marketing team and working

out strategies and stuff, I would always sort of go back to stuff there.

So that sort of set me up with a good base of marketing and

branding understanding. And then from there I

went and worked for London Underground and I was a contract

director and I specialized in lift and escalator safety. So I've

got. Of course, I mean, it was the next natural step, wasn't it? That clearly

is your next step. Yeah. I had the opportunity of someone that

I knew actually through hospitality that had then gone and worked in the

plumbing side to become a plumber and was working as a plumber for tube lines.

And then they said, look, why don't you come over? So I went and worked

for tube lines and I loved it. I worked nights. I was, you know,

hard hat, rigger, boots, full PPE. We would start

at like midnight, I'd finish at six in the morning. But I loved it. And

I was surrounded by big burly workmen that were

incredible, very different people to what I've been used to working with. But again, I

learned so much off of them, not just in technical skills. So I'm a little

bit handy when it comes to maintenance. So I learned that

which has actually, again, been useful when it comes to, especially when energy costs

have gone up and, you know, to be able to understand how wattage and ampage

works when you're looking at restaurants, especially in

Leon, when we were looking at, you know, what does an oven pour? What does

a microwave pour, and how does that equate on the bottom line and even down

to when you're building, you know, understanding how circuits work and how

much, you know, you don't want to overload capacity. So again, it's all been part

of my journey. So I spent four years, about four years,

three, four years doing that. And I was at Heathrow. I did the Heathrow

123 tube station refurbishment. And then when

that finished, I was offered to go. Yeah, I think it was all gate. I

was off to go to Aldgate or to another station, and they were like, do

you want to. Do you want to move over? And I was like, no, no.

I've sort of looked around now. I've got some experience. I've got some

life experience. Hospitality. It was always hospitality. It always was

hospitality. So I then went and joined La Saguanas while

Erin was still the founder. Erin was. Was in place, and it

was. It was an amazing journey. So, Latin America, I got to. Travelled to

Rio again. The culture of La Sagranas was unreal. There were some

amazing, amazing people that I'm still very, very good

friends with. And, yeah, had a real journey. I was

there when the sale happened to CDG. So that was my first exposure to a

big transaction, understanding how a transaction

impacts the business short term and long term. So, again, that was great learning.

And I left 18 months after the transaction to

CDG, and then I went to Leon. Indeed,

yes. Which is probably about the time that I became aware

of you. And especially, I suppose, in the midst of, there was a lot more

people I became aware of in that time because obviously, that coincided with COVID as

well. So as my day job being a recruiter, you know,

we didn't have any work going on. So it

was literally, that's why this podcast was started. But I. But

seeing all of the amazing work and you guys were front and center and a

lot of good stuff that was happening around that time and that coincided

with your tenure there as well. I started in Lyon, actually, in

2017, so I started in 2017, and we were

struggling, struggling, but the P and l wasn't where we wanted it to

be. And I joined in the May and we were a

negative, like, for likes, and things weren't going in the direction that we hoped to.

We made some very quick changes. There's some amazing team there. And then

by. By September of 2017, we sort of swung the light for

likes and then 2018, 2019 were two record

years. We had done pop ups. We had done sub

brands, cookbooks. We'd gone into, as I say, gone into

Sainsbury's. We had done a huge amount. We were. Then we

just got some investment just before COVID hit, and we were gonna get two more

franchise partners. We had America with five sites in America at that point,

we were going to open more american sites and we were going to open 25

more owned sites within the UK. So we had big plans for

2020. And then obviously in February, there is. Oh, there's a virus. And we're

like, ah, it'll be nothing. Don't worry. Keep going. Yeah. And obviously it wasn't

nothing. And then. Yeah, Leon, very much. And that's where John's

superpower, our founder, John Vincent, his superpower absolutely kicked

in. And obviously he has a huge network, huge connections, and then suddenly

we are. I've never worked as hard. I've always worked very, very hard, but I've

never worked as hard as when Covid hit. Whereas a lot of people I know

were like, right, okay, furlough or, you know,

start podcasts. Yeah. Look at

how the industry. And I think, you know, the industry, I speak about it now.

The community that was created, again, looking at rainbows that come out of

COVID the community that was created through Covid,

like, it was unreal. I think our industry, in some ways is better

for it. Like, I can ring up an OD or a CEO of a brand

and ask questions and talk to them in a way that I never would have

done beforehand. I think everyone lowered their guard. Everyone sort of just

pulled together and says, right, we win together or we lose together, right? This now

isn't a competitor advantage. Covid is not a competitor advantage here. We need

to work together to all get through this. And everyone instinctively was

able to do that. Overnight. Overnight, everyone just went, right.

Yes, we're all on the same page. Let's hold hands, let's pull together.

Let's all get through this absolute disaster, you know, of

a situation. And that's what we did. Yeah, no doubt, no

doubt. And in that time as well, before we turned the microphone

on, there was a story you were telling me, which tears covered my eyes, so

we have to go there. But

we were actually talking about one of the other byproducts of that is

that. Look at us having this chat today, virtually. That is kind of

now the way that business is done, it's not always a case of having to

be in the same room with somebody it doesn't stop stuff getting done. And

it's just now the accepted norm that that is part and parcel of what we

do. And we were talking about that poor chap who was on the BBC News

that time and his child walks in in the background and

the roller. And then the nanny comes in, or his wife. Yeah. And

everybody's like, ha ha ha. That's hilarious. That's the sort of thing

that never happens. And now it's the sort of thing that just happens. And you've

got your own version of that story, I believe. I do. I do have my

own version. So earlier on into Covid, there was quite an important

culprit in people from government was on it, Matt Lucas was on

it, Helen McCrory. Does that look as important?

Oh, no, not important. But it was. It was an important call that

everyone was briefed on as government and it was a really

important subject. It was about how are we going to raise money to feed the

NHS? How are we going to make a difference? Because we're in a situation that

people in the world, you know, in the country, can't get food. Food is rotting

in other places. We've got restaurants all over the country with

fridges full. How can we. How can we put this all together?

And, you know, the public will want to help as well. How can we raise

money? So it was a really important call and everyone had been briefed and everyone

in. Leon was briefed and when it was your time to talk, someone from government

had gone just before me. And as it was about to be my time to

talk, my son at the time had just turned two. Well, no, he hadn't

even two yet, but anyway, we were potty training him and he walked

in and he pulled his pants down and he. We'd all over my feet.

So the camera's on me. I'm now sat where I am now, trying to have

this conversation and my son is just doing the longest known to man.

We all over, me and I, four. Cups of coffee that

morning. So, yeah, I am game facing, so I'm trying to go through

and what I'm actually thinking is, please don't cry, don't cry. And then he

sits in it and he's splashing the wee. So he's like, it's like this big

wee puddle that he's splashing and he's rubbing it into my legs, he's

rubbing it into the table and I'm like, just keep going,

Shereen, just keep going, don't engage, just keep talking about

what you're talking and just get through. So, yeah, that was. That was something

that I remember. Horrified at the time, but, yeah, I

can't be the only person, right, that has those stories, because I won't be.

No. I mean, not on the same league. But we have a dog. And

usually, as I learn very early on, if I have. If I'm

talking to somebody, that's the time there. She loves to come and say hello, and

she'll just start whining down there, and I've got a, you know, stroker and all

that. So now we can shut the door on her. So she never comes in.

She hasn't weed on my feet, though, so you win.

Normally, my kids run in. I was half expecting them to run in with my

boys at school, but I was half expecting my little girl to come running in.

Everything is pepper, so. Screaming pepper at you, Phil. But that hasn't happened yet. So,

yeah, blessed. Yes. There's another story, actually, and I don't know when this

happened. At the Katiesen.

At the Katies. So, yeah, I've been fortunate enough to be invited to the

Katies three times. And on this occasion, I had been

invited to the Katies by Chris Brazier, an amazing human that

runs amazing events and casual dining awards. But I'd been very, very fortunate. I'd

been invited. So sat down at the table, and we're right by the stage. So

it's huge, beautiful dining room, massive chandeliers, black tie event. And

I'm sat right at the front. So I'm like, oh, my God, I'm right at

the front. This is amazing. Sat down. You know, some people from the industry. So

this was a few years ago now. This was just before COVID This was the

case before COVID So I think it was. Or it was first cases

after coach, I can't remember. But anyways, a few years ago now, sat down, and

I'm sat next to a lady and I'm like, oh, I know you. We

work together at TGI Fridays. You was in accounts. You like, you're

amazing. So I'm chatting away. I'm like, how's your family? You've got two kids of

you. How are your kids? We're having the dinner, and she's a talking

to me, and she's telling me a little bit about her family. And then, obviously,

the table's having discussion around the industry in the evening and very generic

conversations, and we're all getting on fabulously. And I'm drinking more and more, and it's

a fabulous evening. And then at the very end, that's the awards is going, we're

all clapping, we're all talking about how wonderful everyone is. And every now and then

I'm making a reference to TJ Fridays and, you know, where we've all sort

of come from. And then the gentleman that's hosting it gets on stage and he

goes, right, and the big award of the evening is the lifetime achievement award,

because now I just want a massive. And he does this big piece on who's

won the lifetime achievement award. And I'm like, oh my God, who is it? This

is like the most incredible human. What amazing things they've accomplished. And

he goes, can everyone welcome up Angela Hartnett to the stage? So everyone's

clapping, I'm clapping. And then the lady sat next to me, stands up and walks

on stage. Because it wasn't Sandra from accounts, it was Angela

Hartnett. And that's why I recognized her, because she had sat next to me

the whole dinner. The whole dinner. And I was

doing. I was horrified. I was like,

oh, my God. But absolutely. How amazing that she embraced me and

wasn't rude to me. And I vaguely remember later on that night, Gary Usher coming

up to me going, yeah, that's Angela Hartnett. Me going, yeah, yeah,

I realize that now. Now I understand how I

recognized her. Horrified, Phil.

Brilliant, brilliant. But, you know, this is the. There's so much humour comes

out with moments of vulnerability, right? That's the thing that we. And we should

embrace that because I just think humour is the greatest tonic for life,

especially in the face of adversity. Oh, absolutely. You've got

to be able to laugh. Like I say to my team now, as I say,

we're growing rapidly. It creates some stress, right? Even though it's a simplistic model, it

creates stress. And I say to them, guys, don't sweat it. You've got to enjoy

the ride, right? There are things that we're worrying about today you won't even remember.

Just enjoy the ride. If it isn't a big deal, don't worry about it. You

know, there's buttons and coffee. We're going to get there, we're going to open. Any

problems will work out together. Like, don't worry about it, just enjoy the ride. I

think that's probably the biggest bit of advice I've ever been given. I went through

a stage of my career of so focused on what comes next and where do

I go next and what is a smart move for my career and I need

to get a mentor and I need to learn this and I need to. Someone

says, look, that's great, but don't forget to enjoy the moment that you're in

and enjoy the time that you're in. Don't wish it away, because the older you

get, the faster it goes. And it's so true. Right? The older you get, the

faster it goes. God, isn't that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's

that? I said a saying on another podcast once upon a time, which

was that the journey is more interesting than the destination. But then

I had to caveat that with, unless you're on, like, a long haul flight, right?

Because that's. The journey's a bit crap at that point,

but no, that's wicked. Look, I feel like I could sit and talk

to you forever because, one, I'm just a big admirer of your career

and how you lead and. And all of these things, and I'll perhaps get

you back on, because I think one of the things that you talked about was

that you could deliver a masterclass in leading by inspiration.

And I think that's very, very clear in the energy that you bring to what

you do. It's out there for everybody to see, and

who wouldn't want to get behind that? I mean, you know, even from the outside

looking in, I'm a massive fan. Oh, well, thank you so much. And as

I say, for the brand, it's the team. And, yeah, for me, I think

I'm. Now, I said it a little while ago for International Women's Day. You

know, I am not always everyone's cup of tea. I'm aware of that. I'm

absolutely fine. But I made more out of my life by being marmite than I

ever did by being jam. So embrace yourself. Embrace everything about

you. Be a decent human, right? Have good morals

and just try hard. And that's all you can do as a human. Just be

kind. Hey, hey. Yep, that's the one right there.

I actually nearly signed off without talking about Ed Sheeran. Ed

Sheeran. Oh, we love Ed. Thanks, Ed. Honestly, Ed, you

love you. I mean, how amazing. I've had about 20 people

message me. So for anyone that doesn't know, there is a

site called Top Jaw. It's all over Instagram where they ask people to

rate their favorite different areas, favorite places to eat, favourite

bakeries, and also most overrated. Now, we

had been called out once or twice as overrated. Unfortunately, we

work very hard, so that isn't the case. But when Ed Sheeran was on top

jar and he got asked what was his favourite bakery? He was like, buns from

home. They're amazing. And the presenter said, actually, I'm really pleased you said that, because

they get a little bit of heat over overrated. And Ed was very kind in

the sense of saying, oh, look, sometimes people just want to hate on those

that are doing well. And, yeah, he bigged us up and. We'Re very

grateful for him. He also didn't just use words.

He didn't just use words. He gestures as well. He gestured

as well and was very supportive of funds from home.

And Ed, we absolutely adore you. We've dropped funds to his team

at Bertie's. And I'm like, reach out to Ed. Let's do something

with him because. Yeah, yeah. He's just awesome, right? He's just a nice guy.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to get him on this podcast because he's getting involved in

hospitality stuff. So, Ed, gearing on the podcast. Absolutely. Do you

hear that, Ed? If you listen, I listen to you often enough. It's

time you came and listened to me.

Brilliant. Shereen, thank you so much for your time. I know that you're busy beyond

words, but, yeah, that massive, massive power in your story and

wish you guys all the very best in the next chapter. It sounds like it's

super exciting. No, and thank you, honestly, I'm so humble. Thank you so

much for wanting to speak to me. Yeah, thank you. You're

very welcome. Have a good one. Cheers. You too.