#190 - Hospitality Meets Phil Murphy - Career Growth and Resilience in Hospitality

Phil [00:00:01]:
And a huge hospitality meets. Welcome to another, Phil. Phil Murphy.

Phil Murphy [00:00:06]:
Thanks, Phil. Thank you for having me.

Phil [00:00:08]:
You're very, very welcome. How are you?

Phil Murphy [00:00:10]:
Yeah, really good. Things are great, you know, businesses, you know, at record levels. Horcross is a fantastic property and we're just about to probably three weeks away from launch, you know, a brand new outdoor spa area and experience. So, yeah, times are really good at the moment.

Phil [00:00:34]:
Yeah, superb. Well, I mean, let's just get straight into that, then. Just tell the world what it is that you do.

Phil Murphy [00:00:42]:
Yeah. I'm Phil Murphy. I'm the managing director at Hillcross hall. It's a 104 bedroom spa destination hotel in rural Staffordshire. Best way to describe it is an ex stately home. It was built in 1871, so it's a very period property. Numerous extensions have happened. You know, over the 30 plus years it's been trading as a hotel, you know, very heavily on the leisure market.

Phil Murphy [00:01:13]:
Like I said, it's a spa destination. I would say we welcome just a shy bit over 100,000 guests a year.

Phil [00:01:21]:
Right.

Phil Murphy [00:01:21]:
So, yeah, big, big property, big operation. A lot of fun at the same time.

Phil [00:01:25]:
Yeah, well, glad to hear that, because that's quite important. So only 30 years of trading as a hotel.

Phil Murphy [00:01:33]:
Yeah. So there's a great story behind it. Mister Joines, who was the sort of purchased hoarcross hall in the late eighties, picked it up from a fairly derelict state, you know, and refurbed it, transformed it into the hotel and spa destination that you see today. You know, previous to that, Mister Jones is almost a self made entrepreneur and his son Steve is still one of the major shareholders, you know, in Hallcross as it is today. So, you know, come from very family heritage, you know, and just a great business to be a part of.

Phil [00:02:14]:
Yeah, brilliant. I mean, I had a look on the website before the chat and also when we spoke a few weeks back about doing this in the first place. And my life, you've got a lot going on as a spa destination. There's also, you've got mountains of food and beverage offers and, like, it's a proper resort destination for somebody to go and I guess just totally get away from the throws of life.

Phil Murphy [00:02:41]:
Yeah. And I think, like you said, there's lots going on and I think spa and wellness is a very different picture for different individuals. So we try and make sure, you know, if you wanted to come for a relaxing spa break where you can have treatments or whether you're just interested in enjoying thermal facilities or whether it's more of an active break that you're looking for. So, you know, we try and make sure our offering caters for, you know, for everybody's wellness in that respect. But I think it's not until you get to moments like this where you start to take a step back and you sometimes realize the grandeur of the. Of the property you're sort of looking after. So, yeah, it was a nice exercise in that respect.

Phil [00:03:23]:
Yeah, yeah, well, you live and breathe it every day, right? So, as you say, then somebody comes along and tells you everything you've got going on and you're like, oh, yeah, of course, we do that as well.

Phil Murphy [00:03:32]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that. Exactly that.

Phil [00:03:36]:
Yeah, brilliant. Well, I mean, we'll get into that in a bit more depth later on in the conversation, especially because I'm really interested around how you've ended up doing what it is that you're doing. And a massive part of that, of course, is how you got started in the first place. So take us back to the beginning of your career and, yeah, how did you get into hospitality in the first place?

Phil Murphy [00:04:00]:
Yeah, I suppose, like many others fell into it, so to speak. I wouldn't say that there was a concerted goal of mine to get into hospitality. It all started back when I was studying, so college A levels and throughout university, so I was super interested and I suppose every minute of my day was taken up by how much sport I could play. I was always fairly active, you know, whether that's football, whether that's golf, tennis, you name it, I wanted to play it. So when it comes to the fact of doing a levels, you know, I soon understood and realized I'm going to need some money to, you know, to live, you know, take myself through college. Take myself through university. So I needed a job and through playing sport all day, that sort of left the evenings and being at college and being at university from a social point of view, a lot of that stuff, a lot of the socializing happens mid week. So Wednesday nights or Thursday nights or Monday nights, other nights to go out, it's not a Friday and a Saturday typically like what you might find now.

Phil Murphy [00:05:17]:
So I always remember looking at a bar job and there was a hotel not too far from where I happened to be at the time, a function bar job. So I went for that, got that really lovely property. It was sort of part of best western branding, only small boutique hotel in a place called Ironbridge in Shropshire. Beautiful place, heavy tourist place. But the venue that I happened to actually find this roll at, this bar roll was more so a wedding venue. So, like I said, it had a small amount of rooms, about 30 rooms, but it was mainly a business for weddings. So every Friday, every Saturday, there was a wedding on. And then over Christmas time, it was very much Christmas parties, Christmas functions led.

Phil Murphy [00:06:10]:
And I guess as soon as I really started, I loved it. And I suppose the camaraderie of working within a hotel and albeit they said this was a bar job, but as you know, as most people know who listen, when you work in hotels, you can't really just sort of give yourself a department to work in because it wasn't too long before the banqueting team were, we're short now. Can you help throw desserts out or can you serve wine or set the tables up or you, you know, and so it quickly became apparent that. And I loved it, you know, being able to support other departments and really do whatever you could to make the guest experience the best it could possibly be. But also, you know, create this sort of team ethic that allowed you to, you know, get through a function, you know, whether there was a couple of staff short or, you know, for whatever reason that might be. So, you know, I loved it straight from the off, and it allowed me to play my sport all day, every day, and then I'd go to work in the evenings. And, you know, when you reflect on what you did, it was a very older school mentality in terms of, you know, it was a cash bar. You used to have to take your float down to the night manager at the end of your shift and have that counted in his person, get that locked away in the safe.

Phil Murphy [00:07:37]:
And, you know, the night manager used to come around, make sure you'd finished up and, you know, set the bar ready for the next day. And, you know, it was one of those things. And it was really brilliant to look back and think about how it happened. And, you know, back in those days, you would almost have a drink with the owner after you finished your shift, and so with the chef, and so would the, you know, the restaurant staff. And it really did create that sort of. Of team ethic, teamwork. And, yeah, I look back on those days sort of very, you know, with very fond memories.

Phil [00:08:10]:
Yeah. Was that that point in your life, had you already kind of caught the bug, or was that yet to come?

Phil Murphy [00:08:20]:
I think looking back at it, I think. I think I did catch the bug, but I probably didn't realize it because my vested interest was, you know, how much sport could I play? I was fairly academic at school, so I was doing a levels, and I then went to university. And you know, I came out of university with a degree in sport and exercise science. Again, not hospitality was not really something I looked at at that particular time as a career, but nevertheless, I still loved every minute of what I was doing when I was at work. And it was just fun. It was just fun. I never looked at it as, this is hard work, it was fun. I never once didn't want to go to work.

Phil Murphy [00:09:09]:
And you'd almost have that social aspect to your shifts. Whether that was because I happened to be working on the bar in functions and they were weddings, so they were happy memories for the guests. Maybe that had something to do with it, but I loved it. And it certainly was a great time to go through college, university with having that sort of experience under my belt, really.

Phil [00:09:34]:
Yeah, no doubt. In terms of sports, what were your sports? What are your sports? I'm suggesting that you've finished your sporting.

Phil Murphy [00:09:45]:
Career in the director now. I'm a big golf fan. I love to play golf. When I was back in school and college and university days, it was football, it was tennis, it was golf. But as I've sort of got a little bit older, it sort of realized my legs can't play football anymore. So sooner than you realize. But, yeah, golf. I'm a massive golfer nut.

Phil Murphy [00:10:11]:
So, yeah, I love it.

Phil [00:10:14]:
Yeah. Got you graduated with a sports degree. Was your plan at this point to then focus on using that degree in terms of furthering your, your career in that way?

Phil Murphy [00:10:30]:
Yeah, finished university. And then I realized that there was a fitness club opening up not too far from where, from where I was. And that fitness club was branded JJB back in the day. So it was a brand new fitness club pre opening. So they were advertising for a fitness instructor. So I went for that, got that role and started actually before the club even opened because it was a new build. And I remember it, we started just before Christmas, and the club wasn't actually opening until the end of January, so had a good sort of period of time in terms of training on boarding. And then as soon as January hit, they always kept referring to it as pre sale.

Phil Murphy [00:11:28]:
And at that time, I never knew what that meant, but I fastly became aware of what that meant. And I think by the end of January, when the club opened, we had something in the region of around 4000 members, which just completely took me by surprise. And then when I did realize and sit back, it was quite a tactical time to open a brand new fitness club which was on, I think it was something like the 9 January or something like that. So, yeah, yeah, so everybody had all these.

Phil [00:11:55]:
I don't know why that is.

Phil Murphy [00:11:57]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't believe. Can't believe. I didn't realize at the time, but, you know, quite naive at that point. So, yeah, I started as a fitness instructor, a new concept from me. You know, I'd never been a real member at a gym. I'd always used the college or the university facility. So joining a gym and paying a monthly subscription was never something that happened to be on my radar.

Phil Murphy [00:12:20]:
But it soon opened my eyes to the commerciality of what fitness would be. So I started this role as a fitness instructor and loved every minute of it. I was doing inductions, doing fitness programs, you know, and then also just becoming part of the team who would be responsible for member retention. So, you know, it was ultimately my job to talk to, talk to members. And at that point, you know, I was living close to home, you know, through socializing, you know, going out at night and stuff, you'd see the members. So it became this sort of really friendly atmosphere. And it was a new fitness club. Everything was shiny, everything was brand new.

Phil Murphy [00:13:06]:
There wasn't much downside to it and, you know, it was a very successful time. But then within a couple of months, there was a duty manager position which became available and I kind of just went for it and I got it. So I'd been fast tracked from this fitness instructor role to becoming a duty manager. So all of a sudden I was responsible for key holding, pool plant operations, staff rotors. We had a reception team, we had a bar team, we had a housekeeping team. Big function. I was responsible for a sales work alongside a sales manager. So we was creating sales and marketing plans.

Phil Murphy [00:13:55]:
We were doing outreach. So really got an opportunity to learn very, very quickly what the management of a facility of that size and stature looked like, which was great, then became responsible through being a duty manager in terms of brand standards. And that was the first time I'd ever heard that word. And at the time I thought I didn't understand it wholeheartedly. But now I can look back and I can see how important that is. And some of the things which I happen to have learned whilst being responsible for those sort of brand standards still live with me to this day. Making sure the amenities are right in the bathrooms, the towels are right for members, even down to the nth degree of, you know, the dumbbells on the dumbbell rack needed to be in order and needed to be, you know, uniform standards and, you know, sweat towels were out to be a certain way had to be rolled in a certain manner. You know, I think, I think.

Phil Murphy [00:14:59]:
I think one of the checks which makes you laugh looking back at it now, which was, you know, we used to have stand up sunbeds and look inside the sunbeds and his every tube on, you know, that, that, that level of detail. And I, you know, I don't think unless you've been through that kind of experience where it then sort of really lives with you in terms of how you take that forward into, you know, other jobs, other roles, other positions.

Phil [00:15:23]:
Yeah, no doubt. And I think that that speaks to that concept of you don't know what you don't know. Right. And until somebody shows you you, this is actually the standard that we're setting. How are you supposed to know that these standards don't, you know, they're not just there for you to irritate people and to get you working harder. They all have the purpose and they all have their reason for existing.

Phil Murphy [00:15:49]:
Yeah. And then at that point, I think I was obviously doing really well and we used to have obviously, area managers and directors, etcetera. And I think at that particular point, that fitness chain was rapidly expanding. And I think just during my period of time with them, they went from, I think it was circa 1516 fitness clubs to about 75 or 80, you know, UK wide. So it was rapidly expanding. You know, at that time I had opportunities where, you know, I would go and support pre sale other fitness clubs and, you know, being able to do that. And I quickly realized that, well, when you're rolling out a brand, you know, whether you're in Cardiff or whether you're in, you know, Sheffield or Stoke, that the fitness clubs looks the same, they've got this brand, but it then became more important to see, you know, as a member of that brand, depending on whatever fitness club that you walk into, you know, it's so important for you to get that same experience. So, you know, I think that really resonates with me.

Phil Murphy [00:16:51]:
And I suppose my time spent, you know, working for them, I think that's probably would say, you know, one of the most detailed things that I bring from that. Really?

Phil [00:17:00]:
Yeah, well, I suppose as well that the detail from a branding perspective, I always, rightly or wrongly, look at places like McDonald's, you know, who have a. Very sorry if I'm offending anybody by saying this, but a very basic offer, really, you know, they just do a handful of things and they do them to a pretty uniform standard. And that's the power of it, is because, you know, that if you're in a McDonald's in London or you're in a McDonald's in Birmingham or you're in a McDonald's at the airport before you fly away, that as near as, damn it, you kind of know what you're going to get. And that's, I think that's always been, you know, their power and therefore, anybody who's trying to implement any kind of brand standard, you've got to be very, very clear about that from the outset as to what your brand standard is, I would guess.

Phil Murphy [00:17:50]:
Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, I look at that. I look at that now, and even when I look at attention to detail things within the hotel, within the property, it's, you know, you've got to, you've got to make your team aware of what your expectation is. You know, show them, coach them, and then I think they'll follow it, you know, to the nth degree. They'll understand the importance of it. And, you know, that's certainly the sort of the way that I try and implement, you know, certain standards within the resort as we speak at the moment.

Phil [00:18:21]:
Yeah. And I do know that you love to plump a cushion.

Phil Murphy [00:18:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Phil [00:18:29]:
Which is something I don't think I've ever said on this podcast.

Phil Murphy [00:18:33]:
You know, there's a satisfaction of walking through, you know, the lounge, the bar at any time of the day, you know, and seeing a very well presented plumped cushion. My team laugh at me, but, you know, they definitely understand my expectations.

Phil [00:18:53]:
Let's create a new job title. Chief cushion plumper. That would be a CCP, would it? Yeah.

Phil Murphy [00:19:00]:
This might take off, though.

Phil [00:19:02]:
Yeah, we're up to something here. Yeah. Okay, so you're advancing with this organization, I suppose, benefactor on the one hand of their growth, and that probably created opportunity for you without you even kind of needing to go looking too hard for it, I would imagine.

Phil Murphy [00:19:24]:
Yeah. And I think at that time, and it's probably, you know, echoed throughout, you know, my career so far is, you know, I hear people say, you know, they've had a plan or, you know, I want to be a GM by the time that I'm 30 or, you know, and that's, that's, that's absolutely fine, but it was never, I never had a plan. You know, things just door seem to open, and I consider myself really quite fortunate for that. But I'm also a big believer in, you know, if you work hard enough and you committed, you know, opportunities will find their way to you. And that's what I try. And, you know, you know, try and encourage my team to be patient and work hard, be committed and, you know, and doors will open and that's certainly what's happened for me. So, and I have seen it for, you know, a lot of other colleagues, industry colleagues or team members and, and I think throughout hotels you can progress super quick, super quick and, you know, through hospitality, you know, fantastic springboard for stuff like that.

Phil [00:20:34]:
Yeah, I agree though. I mean, I think the opportunities don't. Well, they maybe do still present themselves, but they present themselves way less if you're not coming to the party with, you know, and kind of throwing yourself at what to be the, you know, the maximum of what you can do because generally I think if you, if you're doing that, then people take note. They can see that you're putting in the effort, they can see that you care. They can see that you've got all the attributes that could potentially make you something in the future that you're not currently. And so opportunity has this habit of landing at your, your feet when you're, you're that way minded less so if you're just waiting for it to happen to you.

Phil Murphy [00:21:17]:
Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't agree. I couldn't agree more.

Phil [00:21:21]:
Yeah, absolutely. So what happened next?

Phil Murphy [00:21:26]:
So, yes, duty manager and then another opportunity arose to, to move into assistant general manager, which was, which seemed like an obvious move forward. So absolutely grasped that with two hands again, allowed me to be exposed to, you know, more responsibility. You know, probably the one thing that I sort of really had a grasp on in that sort of role was my first exposure to p and l accounts and having a real responsibility for trying to drive the commercial side of that business and then have a bit more responsibility for new acquisition in terms of memberships. So that was a fantastic opportunity. I think at that point we might have even got to around 6000 members at that particular club. But then there wasn't soon, it wasn't soon after that. I think at that particular time I've been with, I've been with that company for about six years and I can remember feeling a bit, you know, there's more to it than this. There has to be more.

Phil Murphy [00:22:41]:
Yeah. And there was obviously further moves forward after that, you know, general managers and area managers, etcetera. But even that, you know, it was just another step up in that same, in that same sort of, you know, type of industry. And it was at that point that I just started to look around a little bit and there was a hotel, it was a McDonald hotel and they were advertising for a leisure and spa manager, and I didn't know anything about spa at this point. I applied for it and interview, you know, and, you know, I think I had two interviews and I was quite honest, I think, at the time, in terms of, I know nothing about spa, but I had such a great leisure background, thankfully for my experience in fitness club. So in terms of memberships, new acquisition, I thought that played a really important role in getting that role. And they obviously seen something in me that I might not necessarily see myself in terms of, you know, you know, they gave me the role even though I didn't know anything about spa. And looking back at it, you know, when I got that role, it was a very, it was a thousand member leisure club attached to a hotel, a very golf orientated hotel.

Phil Murphy [00:24:02]:
It had two golf courses. So that was very heavy in terms of golf breaks. It was a very corporate hotel and obviously had a quite a small spa on the side of the leisure club, which was, which was about six treatment rooms, a thermal facility, swimming pool, etcetera. So super happy to branch out into something quite different, very different, because I was used to a very commercial leisure club where the branding and the location would encourage new members to walk in and inquire, whereas now I'm at this sort of remote hotel and all of a sudden got to work super hard to get inquiries and leads into the, into the hotel in terms of converting those into leisure memberships and then learning the whole spa model, which I have to say had a great support. And very quickly, what was another great experience is they were in the process of refurbishing the spa. So they were in the process of adding more treatment rooms. They were in the process of connecting the spa and the leisure club to the hotel because it was a slightly standalone building. So they made that guest journey easier, which was great, and to be part of that and to see that one through.

Phil Murphy [00:25:22]:
And then afterwards, obviously, when you put any kind of investment into a property, obviously the commercials need to then stack up in terms of what is that return on investment. So there was a lot of emphasis on how we then make that work financially. So in terms of driving, you know, spa revenue and treatment revenue. So I think I learned a hell of a lot in a really short space of time. And again, being very fortunate in terms of being at that particular hotel at that particular time was very key to that. You know, I learned stuff like, you know, treatment utilization and, you know, average treatment rate and how to drive treatment sales from hotel residents and which was fantastic. And then also what I did find really interesting was that was my sort of first hotel experience in terms of management and how differently that stacked up to my original hotel experience when I was just working on the function bar. But I loved every minute of being part of that HoD team, going to the HoD meetings, having to present about your department and how well it's doing or how, you know, what improvements are you trying to make? And I had a lot of support, and I'm so very thankful of that particular position because it really sort of gave me that sort of foundation into spa knowledge that I didn't have before.

Phil [00:26:50]:
Yeah, I suppose. Without which you probably wouldn't find yourself where you are today. That's the first foray into that diversification of your. Of your leisure and spa knowledge.

Phil Murphy [00:27:02]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I, you know, look back on some funny stories, and I can remember, I think, within the first few weeks of actually being part of that, I can remember one of the spa therapists running, running into the. To the office to say, I've got a bit of a problem, Phil. I have. I've just. I've just done spa treatment on my client, and she's felt she's fallen asleep, but I cannot wake her up. And she's snoring.

Phil Murphy [00:27:30]:
And you can hear it throughout the whole spa corridor and throughout the whole relax room, which was the post treatment room, which is where the guests would go after their treatment to take a few minutes and relax. So I can remember sort of walking into this treatment room, and this guest is just sort of just snoring so loud. Asleep. And, you know, we've got.

Phil [00:27:52]:
Excuse me, excuse me.

Phil Murphy [00:27:55]:
We've done everything. We've got the electric treatment bed. We're trying to lift it up and down, forward and back, and, you know, accidentally on purpose trying to shut doors loudly. And then I think at one point, and this, this vision resonates with me, is there must have been four or five of us around this, this, this guest on this. It was almost like a scene from an operating theater, that. Which can't wait this guest up. But I. Obviously, it was a credit to the therapist for doing such an amazing treatment at the guest.

Phil [00:28:25]:
Yeah, yeah. And the relaxation of your room.

Phil Murphy [00:28:28]:
Yeah, yeah. It's got into this deep slumber. So just. Just another funny anecdote from sort of the early days of being involved in spa.

Phil [00:28:37]:
But, yeah, for the record, that's how I fall asleep all the time, in bed, on a plane. I am just. I'm one of these lucky guys that just gets to have a good night's sleep pretty much every single time he knocks out. Yeah. And the trip and the treatment room have been known to nod off on a treatment room as well. I don't know if I slow, though. That's the only thing.

Phil Murphy [00:29:07]:
This, this one's. This was, this was very. Yeah, I'll never forget this one. Yeah, really, really quite funny. I think it stayed with, with us as a department joke for quite some time, so.

Phil [00:29:18]:
Yeah, indeed. Well, it's not something that ever, anybody ever gives you the training manual for, right. It's how to wake up a guest politely.

Phil Murphy [00:29:27]:
Yeah, I think. I don't think there's ever a way of doing it politely. I can't. I can't even recall now to this day as to how this guest happened to wake up.

Phil [00:29:34]:
So, yeah, somebody just accidentally fell into the treatment table.

Phil Murphy [00:29:39]:
It must have done.

Phil [00:29:41]:
Oh, sorry, I didn't see that. Yeah, no, that's, that's great. So you're, you're on the path with McDonald now. What happened after that?

Phil Murphy [00:29:53]:
So, yeah, it was a couple of years there and loved it. And I wouldn't say again, an opportunity came up which happened to be a little bit closer to home. And it was with Q hotels. And I didn't know much about the hotel brand, but it was a like, for, like, job. It was a leisure and spa manager. And after a bit of research, I found out that it was a slightly bigger spa entity than where I happened to be at the time. So applied for that and got the role, which was great. And, yeah, it started with.

Phil Murphy [00:30:31]:
Started with Q hotels as a leisure and spa manager.

Phil [00:30:36]:
Where are we at now? Roughly what kind of year? Age?

Phil Murphy [00:30:40]:
I think this was about 2013, I would say 2013. So it started with Q hotels. Couple of years spa experience under my belt. It became apparent that, again, maybe a little bit fortunate that there was an opportunity to make the spa guest experience a little bit better. I think the leisure club hadn't been performing, so I quickly made a few changes which I had full support with. And I must say, I think at this point of being in KU hotels is where I met probably two of what I would consider mentors for my next stages of my career. One of which is Dave Heap, the group spa director at the time. Consequently, he now works for McDonald's hotels, oddly enough, but.

Phil [00:31:37]:
Well, it's a small world, doesn't it, really?

Phil Murphy [00:31:39]:
Yeah, but he was a huge, huge support and I learned so much from Dave. And then the next one is the general manager at the time, who is Michael Lavazzani. He's now the resort director at Cameron House just on Loch Lomonds.

Phil [00:32:01]:
And he was my pretty bog standard property.

Phil Murphy [00:32:05]:
Yeah. And I can't say enough about those two particular individuals. I just felt like I had the trust, they had the empowerment and they gave me the, what was right for me at that particular time, the right amount of support and also the right amount of letting you get on with it. And it just worked. And I loved, I loved my time at Kew and fortunately I was able to make a real difference and contribution to that particular property. And I think that obviously ultimately, you know, springboarded me into the next role, which a couple of years through queue at that particular property. And I remember Dave, Dave phoned me up and said, would you consider coming to support me on a group role basis? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. So that's the thing.

Phil [00:33:13]:
When, when you've got somebody, as you just said, you know, when you're, you're in this kind of ideal situation whereby you're in a role that stretches you a little bit because you've still got new stuff to learn, but you're supported by the people who put you in that position in the first place and they give you as much rope as you need to do what you need to do, but equally give you the support in the areas that perhaps you, you need it the most. You know, these are how career bonds are formed, aren't they? I mean, and then when somebody asks you to come and do something, you'll jump through a bloody wall for them.

Phil Murphy [00:33:51]:
Yeah. And through that particular time and I think that was roughly about two years and the support that I was getting but also the trust and the empowerment to make decisions. And, you know, even if they were the wrong decisions, it was okay because I've made a decision and if it happened to be a mistake, then I felt very comfortable to be able to hold up my hands or pick up the phone and say, you know, this is a decision that I made and these are the reasons that I made the decision, but it hasn't quite worked out the way that I thought that it would.

Phil [00:34:22]:
Yeah.

Phil Murphy [00:34:23]:
And ultimately you learn from them and those, those are those particular, I would say, you know, principles that I adopt now, you know, in the team and, you know, that was ultimately, you know, over ten years ago. So I can't thank those two particular individuals enough and they were a real pivotal, pivotal mentor for me in terms of moving forward. So, yeah, when Dave made that call to me and offered me that role, I took at it with, you know, took to it with. I grasped it. I was, of course, and, you know, that moved me into a group role ultimately, you know, supporting the responsibility of, I think at the time we were 26 properties over the, throughout the UK. Yeah, it was just at the time that we acquired the six de, via resort properties into the portfolio as well. So places like Cameron House, Mottram Hall, Slaly Hall, Alton hall. So, you know, they, they were big venues.

Phil Murphy [00:35:31]:
They were big spa venues, they were big leisure venues. So to bring them in the portfolio and support them from a leisure and spa perspective was, was a huge learning curve and it was a fantastic one. You know, we were the one. We were the ones responsible for integrating them into the Q hotels way of working, the commercial mindset, the, you know, getting them to use the systems that we were using, just really analysing how they were operating and I, and helping them support, you know, in moving and moving that part forward. And that was, that was an amazing time. So I think we're probably now on to about 2015, I would say now. And yes, and ultimately I thought, you know, this, this is my dream job. This was, this I loved doing.

Phil Murphy [00:36:13]:
I was traveling around the country, you know, I had the support of, you know, an amazing team. Dave. I was being exposed to, you know, general managers who were very different in every, in all their approaches, and I was getting to learn off these, these individuals, you know. Yeah, it was a fantastic time and, you know, I look back on that with very great memories, but huge learning. And I think that was really a, you know, another, you know, time which I would probably look back on to think that was the, those are the years that I was learning the most about spa and leisure and how to drive it commercially, how to build relationships with, you know, agents like spa breaks.com and hosting fam trips and a whole host of different things. But it was very successful time.

Phil [00:37:08]:
Yeah, I suppose also there's just that general relationship building skill, because, as you say, as well, you've got, not only did you have the core Q properties, but you've got new properties that came into the portfolio, probably with teams that are used to doing things a certain way, but you've got to then change. We'll come back to brand standards, set out a case of brand standards about what it means to be a spa and a queue environment, as it were. But also, as you say, you're then also dealing with the fact that every general manager will have their own set of goals and guidelines that they're being given as well. And how do you manage all of that so that you're not getting in their way, you're adding value to trying to help their cause to be a much better one.

Phil Murphy [00:37:58]:
Yeah, the role was very much a support role. It was supporting the leisure managers, the spa managers, the spa directors, in terms of being able to, you know, drive their businesses commercially. And I think that's where, you know, certainly supported the general managers in that respect as well. And I think that was what Q hotels are very good at is their support network commercially around the whole business. It was, you know, yeah, I've met some amazing people, people that we still lean on to help me now. You know, I work with a couple of the senior teams around Q Hotels who come and support me now at Aukros in terms of training, in terms of introduction of new procedures and new processes. So I think the relationships that we built at that particular time sort of stay with you for a long. For a longer time than you.

Phil Murphy [00:39:04]:
Than you probably realize at the time.

Phil [00:39:06]:
Yeah, I think a lot of the time as well, when you're in an environment where you are learning a lot, and I'm not even talking about the technicalities of the job that you do, but actually, you know, just centered around. There's nothing beats experience in terms of learning how to work with people. Right. You know, and manage all the different egos and stakeholders and ideas and all of that. And really experience is still the thing that wins, I think, when it comes to how you take all that on board and move forward with it.

Phil Murphy [00:39:40]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. It was a great time. And then what happened next, then, Phil, is unfortunately, Q Hotels sold at the time to, I think, a company called Apri Rose, who had a number of other properties, multi brands, and obviously at that particular time, I was part of their head office team, essentially, and the Apiros worked with a management company called RBH who then ultimately consumed management responsibility for the key properties, you know, and unfortunately, that particular time, you know, there was a number of us within Q and we were made redundant to that particular time. So that was a real difficult period, something that I'd never been through before. So, yeah, that was, that was. That was quite a low point in terms of, you know, had.

Phil Murphy [00:40:46]:
I had my dream position, I had my dream job, I was, yeah, you know, had all these wonderful relationships with so many, you know, you know, managers within spas and general managers and, you know, senior leadership teams. It was. That was quite a real tough time. Yeah. To come to terms with.

Phil [00:41:06]:
Yeah. And I think it's not something that we talk about enough, to be honest. I'm not suggesting that we're going to go and talk about it now, but the, because I think it, it probably happens to a lot more people than it doesn't happen to throughout, you know, at some point in your career. And I think, and I remember reading this on, on your notes, of course, in the moment, it feels horrible, especially because for all intents and purposes, you're in your dream job. So, you know, and then somebody's taken that away from you. So it's, it's like, crikey. It's like a culture shock, you know, how, how did you get past this? But, you know, your words were possibly one of the greatest things that ever happened to you. So if that is the case, why is that the case?

Phil Murphy [00:41:53]:
I look back at it now, you know, and, you know, you have the, you know, the fortunate, you know, you can look back at it because you've had time to accept it and. Yeah, but it wholeheartedly was the best thing to ever happen to me. And at the time, I remember speaking to someone and I'm a, and I feel really bad because I don't remember who said this, but at the time, they were saying, this is the best thing to ever happen to you. You won't know this right now. Yeah, but I promise you this is the best thing to have happened to you. And you'll look back at this in years to come and you'll think that you'll reflect on it as being the best thing. And I'm devastated that I can't remember who said that to me because I'd love to find them and buy them a beer and, and absolutely agree with.

Phil [00:42:40]:
Them, but, yeah, I punched them in the face at the time.

Phil Murphy [00:42:43]:
Yeah, but no, yeah, yeah, exactly that. And I think, look, if I was still in that, in that role, sorry. If that, if that hadn't, if that moment hadn't have happened, what would I have done? I would have obviously, quite happily stayed in that particular role until a, another opportunity had arose if, if it hadn't done. So who knows whether that may or may not have happened? And because that happened, obviously, that's then springboarded me, which I'm sure we'll go into shortly in terms of where I find myself now. And, you know, I have to look back at that time and go, you know, as tough as that was, you know, I wouldn't be where I am now with it if that hadn't have happened.

Phil [00:43:25]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, what did happen then? In terms of where you come to terms with something like that big shock. And you're, like I said, it's like managing a trauma, right? Especially because you're. You're used to a way of life which is centered around this focal point, is one, it, you know, that's the. The money that it brings into your life in order for you to live. But two, it's, you know, a massively enjoyable part of what you do and makes you who you are. So once you've kind of dealt with the trauma, how did you get past that and what happened next?

Phil Murphy [00:44:02]:
It was a really odd story because I remember having the phone call. It was over a weekend and I just got back from holiday where I'd actually got married. No one knew I was getting married because me and my wife got married in New York. And we did it on a bit of a whim and we were obviously super happy, super excited. And we got back and then I had a call from Dave to say, Phil, we've got to go to, you know, head office. So unfortunately, from. From the, you know, from getting married to realizing I'd been made redundant was. It was a matter of days.

Phil Murphy [00:44:34]:
So that was. That was that. That was always like a bit of. A. Bit of a strange time, but no, I think at the time you start to digest it, you then start to think about, okay, so what have I got to do now? So I've got to start, you know, connected to my network. I've got to speak to my, you know, colleagues in the industry, you know, suppliers who can link me to different other contacts, you know, updating a cv, speaking to recruiters, you know, doing that whole thing. And I think it got. It got quite, you know, obviously with the amount of, you know, what.

Phil Murphy [00:45:09]:
What kind of business queue was. I think it got quite a bit of traction in terms of there was a lot of people, a lot of companies realizing that there was some super talent which was becoming available. And the amount of support that I found from industry colleagues, suppliers who I'd worked with, they were devastated. But ultimately they helped so much. And therefore, then two opportunities arose. The horcross one came about because the HR manager at Horcross was a HR manager who used to be at Q Hotels who I happened to share an office with whenever I was at that particular property. So, you know, they reached out to me and said, you know, there's a spa director role potentially available. Do you want to have a chat? So I was like, obviously.

Phil Murphy [00:46:03]:
So we went and had a chat and then another. Another ex colleague of mine worked for McDonald Hotels. He contacted me and he said, look, I might have a cluster role. Sorry, I have got a cluster role available. It's looking after three properties that are reasonably in close proximity. We really want to move the spa project forward. We've got leisure facilities within all of those. Do you want to come and have a chat? So I was like, obviously, yes, I want to come and have a chat.

Phil Murphy [00:46:36]:
Yeah. And this will happen in relatively quick, quick time. So I'd gone from being this sort of deflated individual that had kind of thought that he had his dream job to all of a sudden being in demand. And that doesn't wonders for your self esteem. That was just sort of the complete change of. That was amazing. So, yeah, I went and had a chat with withdeze. With Horcross and went and had a chat with.

Phil Murphy [00:47:02]:
Back with. That was. Fortunately, it was back with McDonald hotels, actually. So we went on a chat and ultimately then, you know, two offers came on the table. So it was like a bit of a strange sliding doors moment in terms of what do I choose? Hallcross was this sort of huge spa entity. I mean, it's 85,000 sqft. It had 41 treatment rooms. Wow.

Phil Murphy [00:47:28]:
It was a. It was an absolute beast of a property, just in terms of the spa element to it. And then there was McDonald hotels, which was something that I knew it was almost kind of safe. You know, it was very similar to what I'd been doing at Kew. But I think that the moment I came to see Horcrust and started to speak to the. The owners of was independently owned. You know, it felt. It just felt right.

Phil Murphy [00:48:01]:
And I actually, to this day, I still have to pinch myself when I'm driving into work. The property's so beautiful. And, you know, that. That was a real time. So I chose hoarcross, and I don't even think I had a pause in my employment from actually when I did end up finishing with Q hotels to actually starting at Horcross. So I think the. How I felt in terms of deflated was actually very, very short lived because I then started to become so excited about horcross and just the entity of it. So, yeah, it all happened relatively quickly.

Phil [00:48:34]:
What's the. I mean, you're a listener to the show, so you know that I can't get through an episode without sticking a cliche in somewhere. But when it comes to redundancy, the cliche is the end of something is often the beginning of something else. And certainly your story speaks directly to that in terms of, especially in the moment, you don't necessarily know that, but without it, you're not where you are today. It's one of those. It's kind of a mind boggling moment. And again, it probably comes back to. There's a couple of things that I kind of made a note of there as you were talking.

Phil [00:49:12]:
One, your propensity to build good relationships because, you know, a relationship that you had with an ex colleague who happened to be at Hoarcross hall and suggested maybe it might be worth a chat about this, you know, maybe you don't get that opportunity if you haven't built a relationship with that person previously, you know, earlier in your career. So the message there is wholeheartedly look after everybody, you know, from a relationship perspective, because you just never know. They could hold the key to that special, special thing that will just, you know, really take hold in your life. But also the. The relationship element is then the next stage of that is, you mentioned it in the kind of the recruitment process is that, you know, if you click with the ownership and you get the vision and you understand all of that, and that's all. It's. I think it's very easy to buy into a vision when it's spectacular and you can see that in your own mind, but it's almost pointless if you don't get on with the people that you're going to be working with on a day to day basis to make that happen. So I took a lot there from the fact that actually relationship building seems to be a really good, I suppose, grounding for you in terms of, you know, kind of everything really, that's allowed you to move forward.

Phil Murphy [00:50:36]:
Yeah. And it's not. It's not until you mentioned it, effort. It's not until you. You find this pivotal moment where you have network and connections that can not only propel you into potential roles when. When times are bad, but you can sometimes just be, know, pick up the phone and have an ear and being able to sound something off somebody else who doesn't have a necessary, you know, opinion about something is so important. And, you know, I look at. I do that right now, and it's only through the contacts that I've made, you know, over the last few years that I've, you know, you know, had to make these type of decisions.

Phil Murphy [00:51:22]:
So just being able to lean on people for a chat sometimes in terms of being able to, you know, you know, ask them, is this a good idea? What do you think? What would you do in my situation? You know, and you might not come to an answer, but you have a bloody good chat while you do it anyway, so, yeah, so, yeah, and vice versa, you know, get friends and industry colleagues that do the same with me. So, yeah, relationships are key and, you know, I'm very fortunate to have some great ones.

Phil [00:51:53]:
Yeah. Brilliant. So you're in hoarcross, obviously not the role you're doing now, but what year was it that you moved in? Moved in. Lovely to move in.

Phil Murphy [00:52:09]:
So it was the end of 2017, start of 2018, where I started at Hoarcross and started as a spa director. So we have a huge spa, like I said, it's got 41 treatment rooms, two large pool areas, ten thermal suites, it's 85,000. Spa facility, gym, good healthy membership following, and a good reputation as well. So, yeah, started there in late 2017, early 2018, obviously, consequently, as a finishing with Q. And it always makes me laugh because my first day on property was the day after the staff party, which, you know, typically, hospitality, they always have. We always have Christmas parties for staff in the first week of January.

Phil [00:53:04]:
Right.

Phil Murphy [00:53:04]:
When occupancy is slightly lower. That doesn't seem to change. So I started here on the Monday and I. It was like a morgue because everyone had the staff party the night before. So straight away, I kind of wondered what. What the hell had got.

Phil [00:53:19]:
Where's the energy, guys?

Phil Murphy [00:53:21]:
Yeah, it was, it was. It was a real strange day. And so spent the. Spent the morning, you know, doing. You doing the HR things, and then that afternoon, got introduced to some of the team, you know, where. Where the office space was, and I. And really got to know some of the staff. And at that time, it was, you know, the staff were great.

Phil Murphy [00:53:46]:
It needed some organization, it needed a bit of structure putting into it. You know, there was a few, you know, the pricing point wasn't quite where we wanted it to be, but I could very much, very quickly see. See a vision as to where it was going to be. And the owners were just so, so supportive. We needed to do a bit of investment into some of the spa spaces. And, you know, and this is the beauty of not working for a big corporate chain. You know, a couple of phone calls and it's like, yes, let's do it. And that's what I love.

Phil Murphy [00:54:25]:
It is so fast paced moving, and you can turn on a 50 p p pace in terms of the angle where you go it so quickly. It's just a phone call. If it makes commercial sense, let's do it. And that was that. Good. And those first couple of years were so exciting. We were moving it forward so quickly. We were putting in so much structure.

Phil Murphy [00:54:46]:
The guest experience, the guest journey was just. Was just improving by the day. And then consequently, we were able to, you know, move it forward commercially, which allowed us to, you know, make it even better experience, charge, charge a little bit more money as we went. And those first couple of years were really exciting.

Phil [00:55:07]:
It sounds like getting your teeth into something, right? I mean, in terms of. But also seeing the potential of where you can take it, I think that's the key thing. And being in an environment where they can make it happen without it, I suppose being death by committee or something, that just takes forever to move forward.

Phil Murphy [00:55:31]:
Yeah, death by committee is a very good analogy, but I'm being the exact. The exact opposite of that. And that's what really excites me still to this day, because we still have some amazing conversations, and the beauty of being able to move the business sort of through just discussing things openly is amazing. Yeah, it was. It was a really good time. And. And then, you know, two years down the line, um, you know, after we. We were successful.

Phil Murphy [00:56:08]:
So this would have been in the January of 2020.

Phil [00:56:13]:
I see where this is going.

Phil Murphy [00:56:15]:
Well, again, I didn't realize this at the time, but I look back at this in January 2020, I had a conversation, um, with the owners, and they were like, you know, Phil, we're doing really. We're doing really well in spa. How do you feel about, you know, moving on and almost looking after the. The hotel as well as a spa? So I was really taken aback by. By that conversation. Wasn't expecting it, and I turned it down.

Phil [00:56:47]:
Really?

Phil Murphy [00:56:48]:
Yeah. I said, yeah, I don't think I'm ready. We haven't accomplished what I kind of wanted to accomplish with the spa, and thanks for the offer, but I don't think that I'm ready for this. I need a little bit more time. And again, indicative of how they have been for me over the course of being part of WarCROss. They were like, that's absolutely fine. We really appreciate your Honesty, and, you know, maybe. Maybe there's opportunity in the future.

Phil Murphy [00:57:28]:
So, you know, I remember speaking to my wife about it Going, have I just made the biggest mistake that I could have possibly made? I think there was a bit of a nervousness around me. I'd seen GM's maybe, you know, fail and not succeed. And, you know, at that particular point, I didn't have extensive knowledge around food and beverage and, you know, housekeeping rooms divisions stuff. And maybe I was a little bit scared, a bit nervous around it. I don't know. Again, it's probably one of these situations where I will. I look back at it and go, no, that was actually another good decision because. Because what was coming through us in two months later down the line was Covid.

Phil Murphy [00:58:14]:
Right?

Phil [00:58:15]:
Indeed, yes. Well, that's where I thought it was going. I didn't see the other side coming, so.

Phil Murphy [00:58:23]:
Yeah, and then obviously, Covid hit, which was just. Yeah, obviously devastating for everybody. And obviously, I don't think we need to get too much into it, but, yeah, that was that sort of period.

Phil [00:58:36]:
Finally under. It was a tough time.

Phil Murphy [00:58:39]:
Yeah, yeah. But it's another story, actually, because we obviously, as every hotel resort, had to adjust to that kind of, you know, period. Obviously, we, you know, with furlough and stuff, we. We whittled the team down to a very small team because we still had to look after a property. And a property of 150 years old just, you know, needs a certain amount of upkeep whilst you're. Yeah, you're close. But funny enough, you. You know, the first night that we.

Phil Murphy [00:59:08]:
I'll never forget, it was 20, I think it was 23 March. It was a Friday. And all of a sudden we've got to close the hotel. And to that point, we realized that the front doors don't even shut. They've never been shut. So we're there trying to figure out how do we shut these. These big, you know, ten foot oak doors that don't actually close. So, you know, it's.

Phil Murphy [00:59:32]:
Yeah, that was. That was inventive, but, you know, trying to find a bit of humor in a really bad time was. Yeah, was what got us through it.

Phil [00:59:41]:
I think it's the. It's the only solution, isn't it, really?

Phil Murphy [00:59:44]:
Yeah. And then fast forward to, you know, after Covid, we did. You know, it was great because I did a real bunch of work within. Within Covid. We. From a spa perspective, we kept in fantastic communication with. With the team. We reset some of our working processes.

Phil Murphy [01:00:06]:
And then, obviously, when we were finally able to open and then close again and then open again and then close again and all that sort of stuff, we really propelled. And the product was phenomenal. At Horcross, obviously, we know that there was a pent up demand for spa experiences, and we just excelled. The guest experience was great. We coped with the demand. Our revenues were phenomenal. And it really went from strength to strength. And, you know, we then started to.

Phil Murphy [01:00:39]:
The awards tended to then start piling in. We had a really good accreditation through the Good Spa guide, we managed to obtain what they classed as five bubble luxury property, which at the time I think there was only. We were one of twelve properties in the country to obtain that criteria through the good spa guide. So that was a massive achievement. And so the spa was going from strength to strength and then, fortunately for me, is the owners then came back to me at the start of 2022 and said, have you changed your mind? And I said, absolutely, I've changed my mind. I would love to. I would love to look after the whole property, the whole resort. And at that point, I just felt ready.

Phil Murphy [01:01:33]:
That two years was massive and I know obviously the issues that we've gone through, but I just felt like. I just needed that time. Even to this day, I'm struggling to explain it to you, Phil, but I needed that time and again, just, they're amazing people and they obviously waited and they approached me again and it felt right. So, yeah, from early February 2022 was when I then became managing director at Hillcross.

Phil [01:02:09]:
Yeah, brilliant. Well, the rest is history, but I'm not going to let you. Quite easy. But no, I think you said that you're struggling to explain it. I don't think you are at all. I think I totally get the message. I think what it says to me, certainly, is that you're monumentally self aware about. Because it's not just, yes, it's a wonderful opportunity on the face of it, of being able to be given that opportunity at that particular time.

Phil [01:02:36]:
But if within yourself, you just, you don't feel like, like you've, you've still got stuff to do in order to, to, you know, then consider it fully. I think, um, actually there's a lesson for everyone out there who could, you know, take it. It's not always just about saying yes, because it seems like, you know, taking an MD ship is a wonderful thing to do, no question, but you've got to be. Yes, of course there's going to be a bit of stretch, but you've got to, you don't want to feel like you're completely out of your depth and you still have to, you know, make the spa work, but in addition, you've got to make the rooms work and the f and b work and all of the other things within the hotel work. So I think. I think there's a massive lesson to be learned from that particular. It's not always. It's not always about saying yes.

Phil Murphy [01:03:28]:
You'Re right, initially, you're right and, you know, I look back and, you know, it was, again, probably the second best thing to ever happen to me was the fact that I didn't take it at that particular time, in that particular moment and feeling, you know, mentally ready, you know, to take on this sort of beast of a property was, you know, I was excited to do it. And, you know, I felt at that particular point as well, you know, things had started to settle a little bit after the pandemic, so it was less chaotic in terms of what was going on. And like I said, when I first took on the spa director role, I quickly established a vision for the type of leader, the type of person I wanted to be in terms of that spa. And then I think from 2022, it was very apparent in terms of what I needed to do to move the. Not, not only continue to move the spa forward, but move the hotel forward in the property forward in that vein as well. So, yeah, timing was everything. Again, feel very fortunate.

Phil [01:04:40]:
Yeah. So now you've made it to MD, I'm assuming it's feet up, you know, just let the world pass you by. But two years in the job, I mean, actually, there was something that I did make a note of in your notes, again, was kind of, and maybe this is more prevalent for this role, but I'm sure you must have experienced it in other roles when you've jumped up as well. Is this kind of philosophy of the difference between management and leadership, and especially as an MD, because, you know, you've got to be looking and thinking in all directions as opposed to specifically on. On one area of the business?

Phil Murphy [01:05:23]:
Absolutely. I suppose the easiest. The easiest way to put it across is I didn't take to this particular part of the role as easy as what I would have liked to have done, because that change for me was really hard. And I think, I look back now and I think, you know, being a manager, being a leader, I've learned so much and, you know, I've leaned on every part of experience that I can draw from, but I've also reached out to loads of different people to kind of get a bit of a steer on this. And it was really hard. But, you know, my philosophy now is got to surround myself with great people, you know, you know, mostly who know more than me, who have more experience than me in certain areas, and then I've got to create this and support them in terms of creating a great environment for them to do their thing. And this is where I draw back on those great people that I met, you know, Michael Lavazzani, Dave heap. They gave me the space they gave me the trust.

Phil Murphy [01:06:29]:
They gave me the empowerment to make decisions, and I really thrived in that environment. And that's ultimately what I'm trying to do for the managers that work for the horcross is, is just really create them an environment that they can be creative, they can feel empowered to make decisions, they can, you know, move to move the business, and they feel an emotional connection to what we're trying to achieve. And, you know, I think I've done that, you know, reasonably well so far, and, and I think that's certainly a contribution as to why we're doing as well as what we're doing right now. So it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy for me.

Phil [01:07:07]:
Yeah.

Phil Murphy [01:07:08]:
Yeah.

Phil [01:07:08]:
Yeah. I think that probably comes back to then as well, about the kind of mutual respect that you seem to have with your ownership as well and the fact that they've again seen something in you perhaps that you didn't see in yourself, given you the opportunity, but also probably critically backed you in that it's not, not a case. They obviously want you to succeed, which is great because there's a, you know, why would we want anybody to fail in a position like that? But there's, it's not, it doesn't always happen that the, the leadership is given the support that they need in order to do a world class job.

Phil Murphy [01:07:49]:
They've been amazing. And what's it, what was quite, what was quite, quite bad when I first took on, for real, the MD role in February 2022, unfortunately, then my dad passed away the month after in the march.

Phil [01:08:09]:
Right.

Phil Murphy [01:08:10]:
Yeah. So I'd sort of been propelled into this, into this role that I was super excited about. And then it just had this sort of tragic occurrence. But in terms of the support, it was unbelievable. What, what the owners of the company did. You know, they were so supportive. They were, you know, I had as much time as I needed to take. They had such a real right balance of keeping me informed of what was going on and also letting me deal with the situation that I had, you know, and I can't thank them enough of that.

Phil Murphy [01:08:52]:
And I think, like what you just said, the support and the relationship that I have with the owners was just sort of so indicative of how I felt and how I propelled from being a manager to being a leader, you know, and that for me, at that particular moment of them being that kind at that particular time was just, you know, just, just, again, just such a significant period in terms of, you know, how I felt working here at Warcross. They were unbelievable. I can't, I can't thank them enough for what they did.

Phil [01:09:27]:
Yeah, I suppose that, that then these are the sorts of things that you remember for a long time, right, as well, Justin. And they're the things that create loyalty as well. You know, they're, they've given you the support that you need. You're then throwing yourself at the role in order to, you know, make it a success for them as well as yourself, of course. But you know, you kind of feel that you, that you maybe you owe something to them or something like there's all this deep psychology of why people are loyal to roles and jobs, but a lot of that comes down to, in the end, mutual respect.

Phil Murphy [01:10:07]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, you're right. And having the trust and, and having the empowerment to make decisions that, you know, ultimately you're doing for the right reasons. So, yeah, I think as soon as you get that emotional connection with something, you know, you will, you will jump through hoops to make it work.

Phil [01:10:30]:
Yeah, absolutely conscious of time. This is as I am in every single conversation that I ever have. But I want to talk about some of the work you've done around sustainability because this is something that obviously is a very, very topical subject to discuss in any case. But I'd made some notes here around the fact that you're at a point now where you've got a zero landfill business in terms of you're not sending anything to landfill. Is that what I can deduce from those words?

Phil Murphy [01:11:08]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Phil [01:11:10]:
Fantastic. How do you get there?

Phil Murphy [01:11:16]:
It's working with some fantastic partners in terms of who look after our whole waste facility and implementing processes throughout a huge resort to make sure what you're producing goes down the right channels to make sure it's looked after correctly. You know, from food waste to general waste to cardboard recycling to glass recycling to, you know, working with great suppliers in terms of who are so super conscious in terms of, you know, their packaging that they, that they provide you with, you know, working locally with, with food suppliers, you know, and being very selective in terms of who we work with. I think that's, that's probably the key to it more than anything. But probably what's the biggest part of our sustainability journey that we've been on most recently is being able to invest in a biomass energy center, which at the time was some significant, not only investment, but upheaval disruption within the business because being a property of a certain age means you are typically burning. And also we're quite a remote resort, so we were, previous to our biomass center, we were using kerosene oil for all heating, which not only is super environmentally unfriendly, is also super expensive as well. So we made an investment, we made a commitment. We built a big biomass energy center which is now connected to the building. We use wood chip, we burn wood chip and that heats, you know, all of our hot water throughout the building, all of our heating, obviously as a spa destination with pools and hot tubs aplenty.

Phil Murphy [01:13:12]:
You can imagine what that heating demand is. And what's even better is the wood chip is sourced locally from, you know, we're on the, we're in the national forest and we source our wood chip, you know, less than 8 miles away from the property. And also the ash that the wood chip produces is obviously very fertile as well. So we utilize that within the grounds. And what we can't utilize within the grounds, we utilize within the national forest. Again, support of our partners as well. So I think that was probably our single most, biggest transition, I would say, over the last couple of years from, from a sustainability point of view. So, yeah, hell of a project.

Phil Murphy [01:13:55]:
But you know, what a good news story that has been, no doubt.

Phil [01:13:58]:
Yeah, yeah. I actually, I saw a documentary recently around something in America. It was around, I can't even remember what it was called, but it was a, it was a fully enclosed loop of energy they'd created, basically a closed loop energy source. And the fact that they, it was wood chips that was firing the initial fire up, but then the energy it was pumping out was then feeding biomass at which they were growing stuff in. And the methane coming off the, that was still within its own greenhouse, which is getting fed back into the energy supply. And it was just this. And I was like, ah, holy moly. I suppose that with, these are the sorts of solutions that in the end I think we have to really, really get behind because, you know, they are, yes, there's going to be some teething problems to get them off the ground, but you know, if they are a little bit more self sufficient than just pulling resource out of the earth the whole time, then, then what's not to love?

Phil Murphy [01:15:04]:
Absolutely, absolutely.

Phil [01:15:05]:
And apart from the big energy companies.

Phil Murphy [01:15:08]:
Probably, they probably, yeah, you're definitely right with that one. But I think, you know, from a guest perspective, you know, guests, you know, there's obviously, you know, a lot more press about being sustainable. It's not just from, from a business perspective, it's personally as well. So I think guests are now, or at least I know now that's so, more interested in what you're doing to, you know, support that message. So, you know, if you're not already doing it, you know, you should be 100% on that bandwagon.

Phil [01:15:45]:
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as we always talk about, it's not. It's not about being at the destination tomorrow. It's about just starting the journey today. There's another one.

Phil Murphy [01:15:54]:
Yeah, I'll write that down, Phil.

Phil [01:16:00]:
Dear to me anyway. Right. We should probably wrap this up because I've taken up quite a lot of your time, but a couple of very, very quick questions just to kind of wrap things up nicely. Well, actually, another question that just entered my head. Let's do this as well. What's next? What does the future hold for hoarcross? Because it seems like you're a very progressive property, and I mean that in the only. The positive ways that one can be progressive. So what's next for you guys?

Phil Murphy [01:16:34]:
Yeah, really interesting to us, really, because as I sit here talking to you, I'm looking out the window in. In my office, and we are, at the moment, three weeks away from completion of an outdoor. Outdoor spa facility, which has been many years in the making, has probably been a construction project from about seven months ago. So, yeah, that seemed to be open. It's, you know, and probably the missing jigsaw, really, from. From what hoarcross was in. In spa, which, you know, it's hard to say from. From a spa facility so big that we had a missing piece, but it was really an outdoor experience and.

Phil Murphy [01:17:12]:
And that's what we've been fortunate enough to invest in, to put in. And that will sort of, you know, enhance the spa experience even more. So it's. It's a combination of outdoor hot tubs. There's a sauna cabin, there's an outdoor bar, there's cabana space, lounge space, an indoor relaxation room. And in total, it will be a facility that's probably in the region of around. It's going to have about 200 lounger spaces on it, so quite vast in terms of footprint, but also there to enhance that spark experience. So that's the next key thing, is getting that one open, launching that one, and really enhancing that spa experience even further for our guests.

Phil [01:17:55]:
Fantastic. Well, I mean, by the time that that's finished, maybe the summer will have arrived.

Phil Murphy [01:18:01]:
Yeah. Don't tempt fate, Phil.

Phil [01:18:05]:
Still waiting. Still waiting for context, we're recording this on the 11 June 2024. Still waiting. Still waiting. But no, that's great. A couple of quick, quirky questions. The. The best interview question you've ever been asked or asked yourself?

Phil Murphy [01:18:27]:
Yeah, I mean, it's an interview question that I. I've never been asked this from an interview, but it's always something that I ask and I always kind of wait to the end of an interview and it's, you know, I always ask the question, is there anything that. That I've presented to you today or that you have seen from my experience that would make me not suitable for this role? And I can't, again, I can't remember where I got this bit of a tip from, but it was always then, if you, whatever answer you get gives you another opportunity to explain to the interviewer, you know, how adaptable you are or, or, you know, how suitable you are for that particular role. So I always find that as a really sort of, you know, you know, quirky way to kind of finish an interview, that kind of, if there was any doubt in that particular interviewee's interview's mind and you have an opportunity to kind of turn that around. So.

Phil [01:19:25]:
Yeah, I love that because, well, you've got to have confidence to ask that question in the first place. Right. And be willing to take a beating if it hasn't gone the way that you thought it had.

Phil Murphy [01:19:36]:
Yeah, true.

Phil [01:19:37]:
Very true. But equally, I mean, that's kind of. That's in this sort of sales closing process, isn't it? Is around about what. What can I do next to alleviate any doubts that you might have that I might be the right person for the job?

Phil Murphy [01:19:53]:
Maybe. Maybe it's come from my membership, sales foundations, from the fitness club days. I don't know.

Phil [01:19:59]:
Yeah, quite possibly, yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Final question then. What would be your three main reasons as to why somebody should come into hospitality as a career?

Phil Murphy [01:20:13]:
First and foremost, it's a hell of a lot of fun. You get to meet amazing people, you get to meet lifelong friends, lifelong colleagues. And hopefully through our discussions, it's come to light that I still lean on some of those colleagues that I've met along the way. You know, I've met mentors, as I've said to you today, that I still consider real pivotal times in my career. So you meet great people, you meet great lifelong friends, you meet great colleagues. And I think if you work hard, you're committed doors and opportunities will present themselves. It's just be patient. But if you've got a really good work ethic and a really good commitment to what you're trying to do, what you're trying to achieve, you can move really fast through the ladder and career, carve a real good career for yourself and, you know, whether that be, you know, internationally, nationally, the opportunities are endless.

Phil [01:21:08]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I'd add in, and this is probably just an observation from your own journey, is don't underestimate the power of experience. Just, just in terms of don't. You don't need to be in a hurry to get there. Sometimes there is more learning to be done that will make that a much better experience when you do get there because you've just got that. That extra couple of years or however long it is under your belt.

Phil Murphy [01:21:37]:
Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, yeah, it's been a great journey and I can't wait for the next step now.

Phil [01:21:48]:
Really fantastic. Well, I think Phil, we have dispensed the myth that two phils don't make a right. I've been waiting to get that one in all conversation. The other cliche around Phil's is that somebody once told me, and actually, bless him, he's just a mate of mine, just passed this year, taken far too young. But he was another Phil and he was the one that gave me the phrase, he's never met a bad one yet, as in never met a bad fail. So I agree with that. I'm still waiting to fight. Thank you so much for your time today.

Phil [01:22:24]:
It's been really great to get a snapshot of your life and times and in fact, what you're doing over there at hoarcross hall and wish you guys all the very best with the next phase of your journey.

Phil Murphy [01:22:35]:
Thank you, Phil. It's been great to be part of your podcast. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Phil [01:22:40]:
Fantastic. Take care.

Phil Murphy [01:22:42]:
Bye. Cheers.