#192 - Hospitality Meets Simon Numphud - Elevating Standards and Building Trust in Hospitality

Phil [00:00:00]:
And a huge hospitality meets. Welcome to Simon Nunford. Hi there, Phil, how are you?

Simon Numphud [00:00:05]:
I'm great, thanks. I'm glad it's Friday. Been a long week.

Phil [00:00:08]:
Yes, indeed. Yeah, absolutely. It used to be a show called. It was TFI Friday, wasn't it? And TGI Fridays was the restaurant gin.

Simon Numphud [00:00:15]:
Yes, the TGI Friday is often. Actually, I was speaking to someone about that recently. It's often a lot of people's first experience of the restaurant back in the day was a TGI Fridays.

Phil [00:00:25]:
Yeah, well they got an awful lot right. I have to say their service was great, cocktails were amazing, food was, you know, perfectly approachable, I think is probably the word.

Simon Numphud [00:00:33]:
Completely agree. And I think they had that. They had a really good customer experience and they're very consistent about that in terms of how they engaged with guests. You know, they crouched down to take the order, if you remember that. And really good product knowledge, as you say, used to make really good cocktails. And you know, it was a good experience and you know, it was always a good experience.

Phil [00:00:54]:
Yeah, absolutely. Have we even got talking about that so soon? 1 minute down and we've covered off TGI Fridays. Yeah, absolutely. But this is all down to me, it has to be said. This is about the fourth attempt that we've tried to make this conversation happen. So I'm absolutely delighted to finally have you on the show.

Simon Numphud [00:01:12]:
Yeah, great to be here and yeah, I know we've had a few false starts, but yeah, we're finally here.

Phil [00:01:16]:
Yeah, absolutely. So just tell the world what it is that you do.

Simon Numphud [00:01:20]:
Right. So I'm managing director of AA Media. So our first and foremost, our primary business is to run accreditation schemes in the UK. So people will be familiar with the, as an automobile association formed in 1905. But what many people don't realize is that we started inspecting hotels in 1908, believe it or not, only two years after the AA.

Phil [00:01:41]:
You weren't there though, at that time.

Simon Numphud [00:01:42]:
No, I wasn't, no.

Phil [00:01:44]:
Not being able that long.

Simon Numphud [00:01:48]:
For quite some time. 25 years, but not that long. No. So, and yeah, so we started inspecting in 1908 and actually it was the company secretary at the time, Stenson Cook, who actually created the star rating scheme as we know it today. So he created a star rating scheme back in 1912 and he based that on brandy classification, which used to be one to three stars and that's actually how the star rating was born. So the a is the actual originators of star rating scheme that's been widely adopted globally now. So it's a fantastic story and obviously the AA enjoys an incredible rich history and heritage of working with hospitality, which, you know, is a real privilege for me to have a responsibility of carrying that forward.

Phil [00:02:29]:
Yeah, pleasure. And I was going to say, steady on, Simon, we don't want this tunneling into an educational podcast because that was a wonderful piece of education to kick things off. I had no idea that that was the kind of the rich heritage dating back that long, but also where the origins of the actual star rating system that we still pretty much use today. That's remarkable.

Simon Numphud [00:02:48]:
Yeah, it is quite remarkable. So, obviously, back in 2008, we celebrated our centenary and last year we reached the milestone of 115 years of working with hospitality. So, as I said, it's an incredible privilege to be able to do that. So, yes, we run accreditation schemes in the UK under the AA brand and we also operate under license and contract with visit England schemes from that point of view. So accreditation being the biggest part of our business. We have two other parts of business. We're a publisher. So AA still, we still publish quite a lot of publications, predominantly in the driving arena.

Simon Numphud [00:03:22]:
So I'm sure you've probably come across roadmaps and atlases. So we still do twelve different versions of the Atlas for the UK market. We do a range of european mapping, various driving titles such as highway code and theory test, and we do a number of lifestyle tours and we still produce camping and cow running guide, which is best selling. Cow running camping guide, and we still produce our AA restaurant guide, to name a few. And then we do a range of AA branded car merchandising in car product under the AA brand. And we operate a small AA travel shop at Folkestone, Eurotunnel terminal.

Phil [00:03:54]:
Right. So, you know, got a lot going on. Then the, um, this, uh, does this all fall under your, your banner as the, the media, as it were?

Simon Numphud [00:04:00]:
Yes, it does, yeah. Those three key components of the business. So, yeah, yeah.

Phil [00:04:05]:
Crikey, I have no idea you had all of that going on. That's quite remarkable.

Simon Numphud [00:04:09]:
Yeah, it's a lovely, diverse business to run, full of great people. That's what makes up our business. So, yeah, as I said, it's a privilege and an honour to be part of it.

Phil [00:04:18]:
Splendid. Right, well, and we'll come back to that in the fullness of our discussion, I am sure to find out what's going on in your world at the moment, but I want you to take us all the way back to the beginning of your career because obviously you're still very, very much connected to the hospitality industry at the moment, but you know, how did you even get started with that kind of, I suppose, career direction in mind?

Simon Numphud [00:04:40]:
Yeah, I guess it's probably a bit of luck and fate, to be honest, Phil. I mean, I probably. I'm from Bournemouth originally, I'll be honest, it didn't do as well as expected at school. I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I left school. And career's advice back then was quite basic, I'll be honest. So it was like, well, what does your dad do? My father used to be a Hoffman presser, a dry cleaner. And I said, I definitely don't want to do that, because I knew how hard my dad worked. Not that I wasn't keen on hard work, but it was very hard.

Simon Numphud [00:05:08]:
My sister at the time, one of my sisters, was a head receptionist in a hotel in Bournemouth. And so the sort of career advisor said, well, why don't you try catering college? So I said, okay. Ben and I ended up at Bournemouth College for catering college and doing a two year, which was then called a national diploma in hotel and catering and institutional operations. Very long title from that point of view. So two year course, which is very craft orientated. So it's for those that remember it's probably equivalent to the old city and guild 706 one and two from that point of view. Training restaurant, kitchen, front of house and very, you know, service detailed.

Phil [00:05:43]:
So a bit of kind of theoretical classroom stuff, but kind of then backed up by some practical, actually out in the field kind of stuff, as it were.

Simon Numphud [00:05:52]:
Totally. So that was a two year course and I really loved it. And actually, what was really defining for me then, and it's still Bournemouth still do this, is that they send all their students to France for a six month placement as part of that two year program. So I found myself, when I was 17, working in a Ranee Chateau property with one mission star in Loire Valley, of all places. Yeah, absolutely. Tremendously hard work. Used to get up, used to be ferried in with the head chef because the head chef could drive, because staff accommodation was the other side of Loire. So it was a bit of a journey in the morning.

Simon Numphud [00:06:27]:
So started really early, finished really late, worked six days a week for six months. But I came back fairly fluent in French and technically very strong. It taught me a lot about the sort of technicalities of food service in particular, and very standards focused. And I really, looking back at that time, it was incredibly hard in terms of training. I really loved it and I think that was really my epiphany moment of actually falling in love with hospitality and thinking, actually, I've become quite good at this from someone that had no skills to actually, to someone that could. I'm showing my age now, but could carve and flambe and tell you about 25 cheeses off a trolley and serve it to a high standard. You know, it gave me a lot of confidence and I fell in love with, you know, the engagement that serving people gives you in hospitality. And there's a real buzz to that.

Phil [00:07:15]:
Yeah. And you might say you're showing your age, but I would say there's always a time and a place for a flambe and a carvery. A carvery? That's not what I mean. A carving. Because, you know, these are skills. They're absolutely skills. And, you know, not to be underestimated, I think.

Simon Numphud [00:07:32]:
Oh, no, there's a lot of skill. I mean, it's like anything. But, you know, you see, if you go to the Ritz or somewhere, they'll still do Garridon service. You know, they make it look so easy, but it's not easy to do it in a very fluent and professional way, slick way, and really quickly. So obviously, you don't lose the heat of the food, et cetera. There is a real art and skill to it. So I admire any of those sort of old, old skills, but, you know, take years to sort of build up.

Phil [00:07:59]:
Yeah, I suppose in some ways you were 17 years old when you did your six months in France.

Simon Numphud [00:08:05]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:08:05]:
Yeah. So still quite young, I guess. But do you that epiphany moment that you had whereby you started to feel like, yeah, this is my direction, this is what I want to do? Do you think that came about because some of us just don't get on particularly well at school because, I don't know, maybe it's too generalist, maybe it's too boring. Maybe we haven't found a thing that ignites us. But actually, what happens when you do find a thing that ignites you is that learning becomes way easier.

Simon Numphud [00:08:32]:
Definitely. You know, I think probably I wasn't probably reflecting back, I probably wasn't that great at exams and that's probably why I didn't do so well at school. But then when I got to catering college, which was a different kind of learning, it was on the job and a lot of research. There was a lot of project work at college. More presentations than just a straightforward exam. I tended to do a lot better in that. And I guess I enjoyed learning more than I did at school, to be honest. It was more interesting.

Simon Numphud [00:09:03]:
It was more engaging for me in terms of that vehicle and that platform at the time, and had some really. Not that my teachers at school were poor in any way, but I just found the whole teaching method at catering college to be more engaging and to be more fun.

Phil [00:09:16]:
Yeah, totally. Half the battle, I think, is finding that. That mechanism that, where you get the best out of you in the learning environment.

Simon Numphud [00:09:24]:
Yep, totally. So, yeah, I have very fond memories of Bournemouth and I met the principal at Bournemouth going, the college I went to, it's just been knocked down, they're rebuilding it and they're doing a massive, fantastic new project and I can't wait to go back and see it once it's built. It's a two year, two, three year project, I think.

Phil [00:09:43]:
Well, that's good to hear that it's being knocked down to be rebuilt as a college and not turned into flats or whatever.

Simon Numphud [00:09:48]:
Absolutely. Because it's prime real estate, because it's right in the centre of Bournemouth, actually, Bournemouth College. And although they have another campus in Poole, but, yeah, I'm really excited to say, you know, they're going to really invest in their catering facilities, so that's quite exciting.

Phil [00:10:02]:
Yeah, that sounds great.

Simon Numphud [00:10:04]:
Great.

Phil [00:10:04]:
That investment's still there in the education where it's needed, for sure. So, yeah, from there, what happened next?

Simon Numphud [00:10:11]:
Well, so my instinct was to. Well, I've done two years, I'll go and work in a hotel. That was kind of my sort of my really detailed foresight into what I was going to do. And it was actually my food and beverage lecturer that said to me, have you considered about going on and doing a degree? And my instant reaction was that I'm not brainy enough to degree. And he said, well, I think you are, and I think you'd really enjoy it and get a lot out of it. So, actually, it was through that encouragement that I actually applied to Oxford Polytechnic at the time, which was offering a modular style degree course, a four year course in hotel management. I applied and I got in. So, rather unusually, I guess, I ended up doing six years of hospitality education, which is not your classic route, I guess.

Simon Numphud [00:10:58]:
And again, it wasn't planned at all. So, yeah, I ended up going to Oxapolly, the Headington site, which is still there, spending four years there with a year out in industry.

Phil [00:11:08]:
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, I think I normally. Six years is one away from PhD, isn't it?

Simon Numphud [00:11:16]:
I think your maths is right there.

Phil [00:11:17]:
Yeah, yeah. Still time. There's still time. Doctor Simon, I can see it now. Yeah. So what was the. Did you notice a step up at that point in terms of the learning experience that you had at Bournemouth versus going into Oxford polytechnic and the degree.

Simon Numphud [00:11:32]:
Level, as it were, from an academic point of view? Without question, there was a clear step up in terms of the level of background reading and understanding and the detail and the much more comprehensiveness of writing papers to satisfy that learning. So that was probably my biggest step up, however, from a technical side, because Oxford polytechnic at the time had a fantastic training restaurant there. Amazing kitchens, actually. So there was quite. Again, it was quite heavily craft orientated. At the same time, I was completely the other end of the spectrum in terms of. Technically, in terms of in the kitchen and restaurant service. I was, you know, I was essentially two years plus industry experience, ahead of most of my colleagues at the time, just for most of them.

Simon Numphud [00:12:20]:
Some of them had worked in hospitality, but for most of my colleagues, the fellow students, they'd never been a kitchen, they'd never held a knife and never put a chef's jacket on, never served in a restaurant. So that was completely alien to them. It wasn't for me.

Phil [00:12:33]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really interesting experience, though, I would imagine. And then, from completion of your studies, how did you take that forward?

Simon Numphud [00:12:42]:
Well, I was very lucky, I guess, to a certain extent, that I did. Again, all the students do a year out in industry. I did my year out at the feathers in Woodstock. It's just outside of Oxford, a lovely hotel. And I actually ended up working there in my third and fourth year as well, having gained such a great relationship there. And I even had living in accommodation for years three and four, so used to basically go back into Oxford for my lectures, from that point of view. And I graduated in 91, which was obviously, as you remember, you know, the graduate placements were being deferred for a couple of years, deep recession. And actually, it was just for churches at the time that the head chef of the Feathers and the restaurant manager, Sonia Kidney and Leo Brook Little, were being backed by the owner of the Feathers, who had sold the feathers, that was Gordon Campbell Gray, into creating a new, brand new restaurant in the Cotswolds in Moreton Marsh called the Marsh Goose.

Simon Numphud [00:13:32]:
So I naturally went with them and I opened up the marsh goose with them, so went straight into a brand new restaurant.

Phil [00:13:41]:
Right, yeah. And you graduated in 1991? I was going to say, you don't look old enough to have graduated in 1991.

Simon Numphud [00:13:47]:
That's very kind of you.

Phil [00:13:49]:
Yeah. Are you sure about that? Yeah, yeah. No, I'm sure you are?

Simon Numphud [00:13:52]:
But perhaps a bit of my thai jeans are helping me there. So my father's thai, so, you know, and he's 92 now and he doesn't really look older than 75, to be honest. He looks incredibly well. So maybe I'll get my dad to thank, to thank for that.

Phil [00:14:07]:
I can only hope. Can only hope. No, that's great. Yeah. So it kicked off then, I suppose, in fully Ernest style in this new restaurant. How did it map out from there?

Simon Numphud [00:14:19]:
Yeah, so Marsh goes was really a good experience because that sharp end of opening a brand new restaurant, know, there was only four or five of us to begin with. We had a deli as well. And you did everything. We cooked, we served in the deli, we served in a restaurant. So it's very, very hands on. But, you know, within the first couple of years it was, you know, it got a really good following and very strong success from that point of view. So I really enjoyed my time there. But at that point I kind of worked with Sonia Leo for, oh, gosh, probably five years at that point, so it was time to probably just do something different and move on.

Simon Numphud [00:14:52]:
So my next, my next job was at the. A place called the Beetle and wedge in Molesford, which is between Oxford and reading on the River Thames. Lovely property which had a small hotel, about twelve bedrooms, a conservatory restaurant which was, you could say, fine dining. And then they had a lovely boathouse restaurant with a real charcoal grill. Very simple but really high quality menu. Probably do about 80 or 90 cupboards inside. But in the summer you'd, you do, you know, more than double that, you know, because it was a really good spot from at run by a couple called Kate and Richard Smith. And Kate was a really good advocate for, you know, putting me through some wine exams because she's very passionate about wine.

Simon Numphud [00:15:34]:
And, yeah, there I learned to, you know, run a much bigger restaurant, essentially, and develop my sort of wine knowledge, essentially.

Phil [00:15:42]:
Yeah, I suppose a lot of this as well has to do with the, the people that you work for. Right. In terms of their willingness to push you, their willingness to support you as well. So your continued learning, it sounds like you absolutely had that there.

Simon Numphud [00:15:57]:
Yeah, definitely. I think in an odd sort of way, whilst mentoring wasn't a thing, then they were really someone I looked up to and helped me develop and encouraged me to develop in my career and encouraged me to keep on learning, which I think is a big thing when you're, you're finding your way in your early part of your career is to try and be a sponge and learn as much as possible, because I'm a great believer. It doesn't matter how old you are and how experienced you are, ultimately, every day is a school day, and you'll learn something new every single day, you know, and hospitality in particular. You know, if you think about wine and food, you know, they're vast subjects, and you'll never learn everything. You'll never know everything anyway. So, yeah, it was good, and it's. And again, it just continued my love for, you know, running a restaurant, the buzzer service, loving people. Yeah.

Simon Numphud [00:16:44]:
All of those things that, you know, I really liked.

Phil [00:16:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. So you're absolutely 100% hook, line and sinker in now. You're on the path. And how long were you at that place for?

Simon Numphud [00:16:57]:
A couple of years.

Phil [00:16:58]:
Yep. Okay. And what happened next? Where did you head after that?

Simon Numphud [00:17:01]:
Again, time to move on, really just through again. There wasn't really any way to develop further in terms of a higher role. So, you know, again, looking to sort of move on. And I actually joined a hotel called Hollington House, which used to be just outside of Newbury near Highclere Castle. And that was run by a really interesting couple called John and Penny Guy. And they had the first Rayleigh Chateau property in Australia, a place called Burnham Beechers in Melbourne. And they'd come over in the nineties to educate their three children. Landed in Oxford, and John was a very entrepreneurial individual and got itchy feet, and he wants to run another hotel.

Simon Numphud [00:17:43]:
So he came across Holington House. It was originally built in 1905. Remember 1904, I think it was, with Gertrude Jekyll Gardens was being previously run as a bupa nursing home. Fell in love with it, brought it in the downturn, and converted it into a country house hotel.

Phil [00:18:00]:
As you do.

Simon Numphud [00:18:01]:
As you do. 26 peas, 26 acres of gardens, and had a lovely kitchen garden. And I joined them originally as f and b manager, and then very quickly promoted to become general manager. So. And that was an incredible time in terms of that sort of old country house vibe. You know, it was a hotel of a very high standard. Had three red stars, had three rosettes. We had a great chef.

Simon Numphud [00:18:26]:
So, yeah, it was a great time. Very, very hands on. And again, just in terms of continuing my love for sort of wine and food, we had one of the largest australian wine lists. Well, we had the largest australian wine list in the country because of John and Penny. We used to buy wines direct from Sydney and Melbourne and ship them over ourselves. So we had over 100 australian ports on our list. We had Penfolds Grange going back to the sixties, we had Henschke, had all the classic names, so it was an amazing seller to work with. So, yeah, that was.

Simon Numphud [00:18:56]:
That was a really interesting time.

Phil [00:18:58]:
One of the best chardonnays I've ever had in my life comes from Australia.

Simon Numphud [00:19:01]:
Which one?

Phil [00:19:03]:
It's. I think it's Soderbergh.

Simon Numphud [00:19:06]:
Okay.

Phil [00:19:07]:
Something like that. Yeah, we had it on the. God, this is going to make me sound really up my own backside, but we had it on the tasting menu at the fat duck, you know, and, you know, not normally a wine that I would have perhaps gone for, but I remember this being just the most creamy, buttery, wonderful thing that ever existed. And I tried, I then got a few bottles of it in household street to have as our house wine, as it were. And then they stopped exporting it because it came far too popular in Australia itself.

Simon Numphud [00:19:39]:
Yeah, because we had such incredible wineists. We used to do lots and lots of wine dinners and winemakers used to come over and host those. So that was incredibly informative as well, to actually meet a lot of the winemakers from Australia and New Zealand and people like Willy Opitz from Austria, who's very famous for making his truckenberg aus laser dessert wine. So, yeah, that was really interesting to see that at the time.

Phil [00:20:03]:
I can only imagine. I mean, I think if you've got even the tiniest bit of interest in food and drink, when the actual maker slash producer comes in and talks to you about it, I don't know. For me, that always just sends the interest level through the roof.

Simon Numphud [00:20:17]:
Yeah, it does. And you can see their passion for the craft. And also I think it's really interesting understanding and learning people's stories and narratives about how they got into wine business. How do they start growing vineyards and all the different stories that brings and unfolds?

Phil [00:20:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. So this was your first GM appointment, as it was? Yeah. How old were you at this point?

Simon Numphud [00:20:39]:
Oh, gosh, I must have been 20, 26, 27.

Phil [00:20:43]:
Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's quite young. I mean, I know I've had a few people on the show who've talked about, you know, the setting, this aspirational becoming a GM before you're 30 type thing, which is a dangerous aspiration to set because, you know, if you don't make it, you know, I don't know, do you feel like that's the end of your career or whatever? But 26 is still quite young.

Simon Numphud [00:21:03]:
Yeah, very young.

Phil [00:21:04]:
How do you. How did you, or did you, did you have a sense of that at the time in terms of, wow, I'm being given an opportunity like this.

Simon Numphud [00:21:13]:
No, I was. I guess you don't. When you're in the moment, you just, you know, you just. You just seize the opportunity and you roll with it. I don't. I don't actually think you think about age, per se. It was just a, you know, as always, when you're working for a proprietor driven property, I think that the strength comes or in. In the depth of relationship you have with the owners, you know, and I had a really, really good.

Simon Numphud [00:21:37]:
Well, this was a classic. Yeah. I remember going for my interview at Hollington, and I ended up chatting to John and Penny for 6 hours, but it only felt like an hour. And what I didn't know at the time is that they'd been to the beaten wedge and they'd seen me operate and serve, etcetera. Obviously, I guess they liked what they saw, but we just hit it off. And again, it was that just meeting of personalities and styles, and we led from there, you know, and I've always been, I guess, in my style, quite flexible, you know, quite pragmatic. And I think that served me quite well because John was very entrepreneur, always coming up with different ideas and let's do this, let's do that, you know, let's build a swimming pool, you know, lots of different things. And, you know, that was quite exciting, you know, from that point of view, so.

Phil [00:22:27]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Also kind of highlighting, again, the importance of that relationship in terms of when you get each other, you'll trust you to do the job and you trust them to have your best interest at heart and the best interest of the property and the team. Sparks can fly. Amazing things can happen.

Simon Numphud [00:22:47]:
It does. And I think it's really fundamental because you've both got to. You both want to go in the same direction at the end of the day, don't you? So. And, yeah, at the end of the day, if you are rowing in the same direction, it's quite easy, actually. It's when you're trying to go different ways, that's where the friction and the challenges become. So, yeah, I think it's really. I see lots of businesses, and it's really, whether it's the chef with management or chef with the owners or GM with owners, that relationship is really fundamental to making sure you have a successful business.

Phil [00:23:19]:
Yeah, absolutely. So what happened next?

Simon Numphud [00:23:22]:
I'll be honest, I've been working there for, I think, just under three years, and it was pretty full on. I mean, you know, you had to be 110% committed to the job. You know, we had our own in house laundry, you know, small, tight team. And, you know, to a degree, you were rolling your sleeves up quite a lot of a day. So I guess, you know, I was pretty exhausted. It was coming to a time of thinking about starting a family. And I thought to myself, I'm not sure if I could, if the two can coexist here. And I thought it's time for a change, you know, regrettably, because I'd love my time at Hollington.

Simon Numphud [00:24:00]:
So I decided to, you know, again, sort of look, to move on, giving John and Penny, you know, sort of their notice about what I wanted to do. And the AA job came up as a hotel and restaurant inspector, actually. And that, bear in mind, this is pre Internet. This is, you know, all the job adverts from the caterer.

Phil [00:24:16]:
I remember that as well. It's fine. That's not just an age thing.

Simon Numphud [00:24:20]:
So I applied and actually got an interview, which I wasn't expecting because I knew there was always a high demand for that job. You know, I got in, got on really well. I was interviewed by a guy called David Young, who used to be the chief hotel inspector at the time, got on really well with David and accepted the job. I mean, it was a bit of a pivot moment because in reality, I took quite a substantial pay cut to move to that role, but I was moving to a different lifestyle of not working six days a week, but a lot of travel at the same time. And I thought, well, look, I'll do that for a couple of years, see where it takes me and move on from there. Really?

Phil [00:24:56]:
And you're still waiting to move on from there?

Simon Numphud [00:24:59]:
Still waiting to move on, Yes. 25 years late.

Phil [00:25:04]:
Yeah. You mentioned there that it was a high demand job at the time, as in, you know, was it high demand? Is that the words. A very popular job for Hotel GM's to aspire to go into. Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's always been a.

Simon Numphud [00:25:18]:
It's interesting because, well, I think the perception is. And actually, over many, many years, I've interviewed people for roles within the aaeh. Everyone says GM's chefs, food and beverage managers, housekeepers. THEy said, oh, being an a inspector has always been my dream job.

Phil [00:25:33]:
Right.

Simon Numphud [00:25:34]:
Kind of. It's one of the things that resonate. It seems to have this perception that it's a job I'd love to do. And actually, when I. When we interview people, actually, and I say this, I paint a slightly dark picture about the role because it's obviously, it's not as glamorous as most people think it is, you know, so I paint the reality of what the job entails just to make sure that, you know, people are going into role with their eyes wide open about, you know, it's a different lifestyle, but, you know, there are many great things about the role, but it's quite an insular role. You have to do a lot of traveling, you have to do a lot of eating, which on the face value, people say, oh, you get paid to go and eat out. That's a wonderful job. But you do that over a long period of time, actually, that you have to be very disciplined about that.

Simon Numphud [00:26:15]:
And, you know, when you're eating, not that I do that level of visits now, but when you're eating your 150th cooked breakfast of the year, you know, after your 175th dinner and 35 afternoon teas, room service, etcetera, you know, it takes a shine off a little bit in terms of. It's a bit like, oh, you travel for work. That must be wonderful. For most people who travel for work, they don't. All they do is see the inside of a hotel room, if they're lucky and they're on another flight or another train, etcetera. It's not as glamorous as you think, as ever.

Phil [00:26:46]:
Yeah, absolutely. And that reminds me of being on ships, actually, as an officer. Yes, we were lucky enough to get the same menu that passengers got, which is. Which is amazing when you first come on board and it's a new experience. But by the end of your six month contract, when it's captain's gala dinner night and you go into the mess and all that's in there is lobster Thermidor, Ribeye steak, beef Wellington. And all you're really, really wanting is just a, you know, piece of fish and a salad or something like that, you know, it sounds really. It's a proper privilege, of course, to be in that position. But.

Phil [00:27:20]:
But at the same time, the line that I always had in my head was if, if you're getting bored by the prospect of lobster Thermidor, it's time to get off.

Simon Numphud [00:27:31]:
And the odd thing is, though, you know, if you ask my kids what I do for a living, they just think I go out for lunch.

Phil [00:27:36]:
Yeah. I mean, not strictly untrue, but yeah.

Simon Numphud [00:27:41]:
There is a degree of fact in there, but I'm not. I don't always have lunch, but, yeah, the exception is that's all I do.

Phil [00:27:46]:
But, yeah, yeah, I suppose part of that process is then that you have to make sure that if that's. If you're having to eat all of these meals, you have to also test out the gym facilities in these places rigorously.

Simon Numphud [00:27:58]:
Well, yeah, well, I've been. I've got better. I've got older about exercise, but, yeah, I've been blessed with a fortunate metabolism that, you know, that I seem to be able to eat quite well without it sort of having too much of an impact.

Phil [00:28:12]:
But, yeah, I'll go back to these genes again.

Simon Numphud [00:28:14]:
It is important to exercise that question.

Phil [00:28:17]:
Yeah, absolutely. So when you and I spoke about you coming on the show to tell your story, I had grand ideas in my head that I was going to call this episode confessions of an AA inspector, because it kind of had to be. So I'm just going to go straight in. We'll carry on with your journey, because obviously you've been there 25 years and you didn't start as an inspector and then just wake up as the MD one day, I'm sure. But, yeah. Any stories from your time, and you don't have to name places, people, or anything like that, make it as vague as you wish. But anything where you're just like, wow, that's just incredible that that happened.

Simon Numphud [00:28:52]:
Yeah. You could write a book on this stuff, really. But, yeah, and, you know, there's so many funny stories through to, you know, you know, whether it's sitting in a restaurant on one of the islands, so obviously quite a small community, and hearing a voice boom from a kitchen, the BaA restaurant inspectors here, you know, it's an almost comical situation to that. Through to. I have had one ghostly experience staying in a hotel.

Phil [00:29:20]:
As in supernatural ghosty.

Simon Numphud [00:29:22]:
Yeah, I have, actually. Believe it or not, I don't kind of believe in that kind of stuff, but, yeah, I definitely felt a presence in one of the BNBs I stayed at on the south coast once, which stayed up all night after that with all the lights on. But, you know, yeah, maybe it was real. Maybe it wasn't real, but I still remember it to this day in that respect. You meet so many incredible people in our industry, and I think all the different characters and seeing their level of commitment and devotion to their property or their job is quite amazing. And actually, one of the beauties of our job is I get to see properties develop over years and over decades. I have. And it's great to see that journey from, you know, a hotel that was originally nine bedrooms to men.

Simon Numphud [00:30:09]:
Now it's 130 bedrooms with a full blown spa and multiple restaurants. It's amazing to see the journeys that some of those businesses have been on. It's been an absolute privilege to eat and experience cooking at its very best in chefs, wherever they reach their pinnacle and are cooking at their very best. So I could go on forever, but I'm thinking about Nico Landenis or Pierre Kaufman or Simon Hopkinson at the Bendum, Alastair little going, then through to Marco, Pierre White, Gordon Ramsay, all of those guys, Marcus waring, Heston Blumenthal when he came on the scene. And to be privileged to have experienced their food at the very height of their cooking in their flagship restaurants, that's been a really, really strong memory. And to also see, you know, and to be part of people achieving their dreams, you know, which has been incredibly rewarding and insightful. So, yeah, that's a great part of the job. At the same time, you know, you see, you don't always see excellence.

Simon Numphud [00:31:14]:
You see some poor standards. You know, I was taught from the very beginning, in terms of training, you don't tend to look underneath your bed until morning.

Phil [00:31:26]:
I wonder what that is.

Simon Numphud [00:31:28]:
But in fairness, you know, I mean, in the 25 years I've been inspecting, you know, the industry has evolved so much. You think about, and this is. This is the reality of the situation. It was 25 years ago that a lot of places weren't en suite. I mean, I just. If you just think about that for a moment, it feels odd to imagine that. But, you know, and pre Internet etcetera, you know, hotels were very different places. And, you know, you had, particularly in b and b, some awful Tardis showers in rooms and avocado bathroom suites and all of those things.

Simon Numphud [00:32:04]:
But we've come a long, long way to cutting edge hotels now with great tech and superb quality. But again, it's been interesting to see that development of hospitality throughout the decades, really. And our food has changed. I mean, again, you know, our country wasn't really renowned for great food, you know, and it's now. I would say we were. I was in an industry luncheon yesterday. I would comfortably say the UK can hold its own against any other country now on a global stage. And I'm not just talking about London.

Simon Numphud [00:32:40]:
And it used to be that, you know, it was only in London you had some great restaurants and perhaps, you know, Raymond Blanc, the memoir, for example. But there really wasn't much else around the country. And then you look now, wherever you go, you've got fantastic restaurants, whether that's Birmingham, Cornwall, Edinburgh, Glasgow, the islands, everywhere. You've got quality. You know, I'm really high quality cooking and I think we're really blessed now. You know, our food has never been in better shape and. And you look at english wines as well now. Fantastic, you know, and not just sparkling, you know, pinot noirs are coming on now, so it's really nice time for UK gastronomy, I think, and food and wine in general.

Phil [00:33:21]:
Yeah. And very, as you say, must have been very, very interesting to kind of almost see this growth happen in front of your eyes. And maybe much like, you know, way back at the beginning of your journey, you don't necessarily. You're not aware of the change within you taking place, you're not aware of the change happening in the moment. But when you're able to reflect back on your time and see the change that has happened, it is quite magnificent how far we've come.

Simon Numphud [00:33:47]:
Oh, yeah. And I think that's often forgotten. And I think if you take that right up to present day, it's actually because life is so busy now and business. Life is so busy, actually, if you take a moment to stop, pause and reflect and actually you go, well, actually, you beat yourself up because you think, oh, actually, I could do a lot better. But actually, if you start listing the things that you've achieved in a year, it actually builds up and it's the same for any business, any hotel or any restaurant. You know, you're always looking ahead and you could do more, but actually you could say, well, actually, well, in the last year, we have refurbished that, we have recruited new people, we have developed a new kitchen or whatever it might be. You've actually done a lot, but the nature of hospitality and we want to keep pushing forward all the time, I think it is a really good habit to reflect and pause and actually acknowledge with your teams what you've actually achieved as well.

Phil [00:34:37]:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm also just going to call you out that your kids are obviously absolutely right because you just said earlier in that conversation that you were at a lunch yesterday, so you're feeding the expectation. Absolutely. But, yes, well, I mean, I'm going to go back to your journey because I want to talk about your journey through the AA. So you started out as, I suppose, a classic inspector, as it were.

Simon Numphud [00:35:02]:
Yeah, hotel and restaurant inspector. I had this kind of south coast as my first patch, so that was probably anything from, I guess, Bournemouth, right through to west and East Sussex, Channel Islands, Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, and then going into the home counties a bit from that point of view. So cut my teeth as a hotel and restaurant spectre, you know, was doing probably in excess of 200 visits a year. So really, I mean, I thought that's another thing a job teaches you. But, you know, having sort of grown up in restaurants and hotels, I thought I knew a reasonable amount about the industry. But actually, until you do an aa job and you see the full breadth and spectrum of the industry, you realize how much bigger industry it is and how different and diverse and independent it is, which was quite an eye opener for me from my point of view and some areas I'd never been into or been exposed to because I've come from a sort of country house background. So five star hotels in London, for example, was definitely a new experience for me, as was regional restaurants, et cetera, and some fabulous bnbs that we have in the scheme. So did that for a while.

Simon Numphud [00:36:07]:
And just, again, sort of my mantra has always been to be a sponge and learn as much as possible and do as much as possible. And from that I was very fortunate to be promoted into the senior team as a senior inspector. And then I started within the key account section. So that's where we would look after groups, group hotels, developing those relationships, managing those with either managing director, operations director or chief exec. Then I became the key accounts manager and part of the senior leadership team. And then Albert Hanson, who was with the business for 19 years and effectively running the business back in 2008, said, oh, it's my. I'm going to retire, but I've done nine. He'd actually done 19 years in the army and 19 years VA and said, it's my time.

Simon Numphud [00:36:51]:
Which came as a surprise.

Phil [00:36:52]:
Can't do that 20th year.

Simon Numphud [00:36:56]:
And then the opportunity came up and again, very fortunate to be appointed, so, took over business in 2009 as head and I've run it ever since. So I had a two year time away from EA, but came back five years ago, so.

Phil [00:37:11]:
Yeah, right, so this is your second stint. But that was. Everybody's allowed a hiatus, I think. And actually, I think it does people the world of good to have good, actually, years.

Simon Numphud [00:37:22]:
And, you know, I felt that I'd taken the business to where I could do and was just keen to do something else. And it was. It was, yeah, it was good. Yeah.

Phil [00:37:29]:
Yeah, absolutely. So I suppose I want to talk about evolution then, really, as part of this, because it feels like for that length of tenure, you must have seen some amount of evolution in the way that things are done. And we obviously talked about the quality level from a property perspective and the like. That goes without saying, but actually in the way that you must conduct your business I would imagine has changed immeasurably in that time.

Simon Numphud [00:37:54]:
Oh, absolutely. I mean, one, originally as an egg, I mean, I joined the egg when we were nonprofit making through to multiple changes of ownership through to commercial reality. And then also one of the biggest challenges, moving from a pre Internet phase into a digital world. And that's one of the biggest challenges. And obviously, being a publisher, that was a, you know, massive change, publishing men into digital. So, and that remains a challenge, I think, for many businesses. Whereas, you know, how can you move from something that was originally a very print orientated way of doing business through to a digital way? And how do you, how did you start to try and, you know, commercialize those opportunities? And. But that is definitely one of the biggest challenges we've had as an organization because everything from an AA scheme point of view used to rely on the book coming out every year.

Simon Numphud [00:38:44]:
And that was the biggest appeal, whether that's the hotel guide or restaurant guide. And obviously, you know, with, with Internet and digital world and all of that, you know, it's. It clearly moved at a pace online.

Phil [00:38:57]:
Yeah.

Simon Numphud [00:38:57]:
Which obviously saw the, you know, the guidebooks diminish and then us move into the digital space and then starting to improve that whole level of feedback that you give from what was ostensibly a, you know, originally a handwritten report through to, you know, something that was digitally produced with end pictures, etcetera. So, you know, things do move on, you know, and the standards move on as well. So, you know, we recently simplified the star rating schemes, for example. So we did that back in February to go with our colleagues at visit England. So we've recalibrated the traditional scheme used to run one to five stars. We've actually recalibrated that now to three to five stars because we feel one and two stars redundant, both from an industry point of view and also a consumer point of view in terms of need from that point of view. So we've got a recalibration of three to five stars for star rating scheme. We've introduced something called quality assessed in the middle, which is for a growing number of perhaps brands that don't want a star rating but still want the accreditation process and benchmarking and awards that we do.

Simon Numphud [00:39:59]:
And something I'm really excited about is we've introduced a brand new entry level called Visitor Ready for industry. And that came about. So that's been a two year process. So during COVID when obviously the industry was on its knees, we wanted to do something for industry, so we created something called the COVID Confidence scheme. So we wanted to have an accreditation scheme which would boost consumer confidence when businesses were allowed to reopen. And that was tremendously well received. It was completely free to industry. It was what we could do to help industry at its time.

Simon Numphud [00:40:34]:
And from that we created, we felt there was a need to have an entry level compliance scheme, accreditation scheme, completely digital. So again, doesn't require physical visits, etcetera, but checked by human beings. So it's robust and credible. And what visitor ready does is it checks on public and employment liability, on fire risk assessment, gas mark, and on food hygiene, and a number of other key requirements. And it also gets businesses to sign up to a consumer charter in terms of responding to complaints, etcetera. And that gives a digital badge. It then creates a digital wallet for those businesses so that they can keep all their documentation in one place. And then the system will then remind them in a year's time, three months in advance, that their public liability is coming up to renew, etcetera.

Simon Numphud [00:41:24]:
We're super excited about that new scheme. It's completely free of charge to industry and actually it's free to all industry as well. So we recognize that the quality schemes have only sort of touched a small part of industry. Hotels, restaurants, BNBs, campsites, self catering. And actually there's so much bigger part of industry out there. So in the cohorts of Eat, visit and sleep, we've created a scheme which hopefully, you know, any cafe, swimming pool, leisure centre, a farm shop, exclusive use place, it won't cost them a single penny. It cost them about 20 minutes if they've got their documentation ready to actually go through a system and to have a credible digital badge which they can share across all digital platforms. So I think that's a great example of how everything's evolved in terms of a fully digital proposition which is free to industry and one that it works alongside industry.

Simon Numphud [00:42:20]:
And again, that's always been our approach. We're a very collaborative and relationship focused style business. So we're very fortunate that all the trade organizations and trade bodies support that new scheme. Vista ready. So whether it's UK hospitality, Institute of Hospitality, Hospa, master in holders, PASC, BNB association, local hotel associations, all supporting, because hopefully it's a force for good, for industry, to help improve compliance and help continue to boost consumer confidence.

Phil [00:42:49]:
Yeah, well, I think that's the thing, isn't it? I mean, any of the accreditations at any level, I would imagine, is something that, from a consumer perspective, builds trust and you kind of know what you're going to get. It's pretty obvious that if it's five star, you're looking at the pinnacle of what's available. But I kind of admire the dropping of the one and two stars because, you know, I think if you're operating at what would perceive to be one and two star level these days with everything that's available, then maybe. Got a question why you would be in hospitality in the first place. But that's maybe a discussion for another day. But, but yeah, I mean, and I love the fact that you've evolved into offering this other piece of collateral for people to jump on board with that. Again, if you have that badge, I would imagine is just this little badge of trust that just goes out into the consumer marketplace that says we're kind of adhering to this benchmark minimum standard so you can trust it, we'll look after you.

Simon Numphud [00:43:46]:
That's our intention. I mean, obviously that flows into a couple of our values in terms of obviously still having a quality agenda that's really, really important to try and improve places. So hopefully that businesses that get onto visitor ready, that might be for some of them a stepping stone to go into the quality accreditation programs to boost consumer confidence. And I think also particularly in the digital world where ultimately, as you know, a business can say what they want, they can self rate. You get loads of online reviews now which have become polarized to a degree. An important filter without question. But I think the key battleground now is authenticity, particularly with AI and all of those other things coming in. And I think that's hopefully what we offer through our heritage and credibility of having worked with hospitality for so long that we can bring that to the forefront to benefit industry and consumer, to mutual impact.

Phil [00:44:37]:
Yeah, absolutely. Not bad for somebody who was only going to do it for a couple of years.

Simon Numphud [00:44:43]:
It's funny how life turns out. So. Yeah, yeah.

Phil [00:44:46]:
But I suppose that you've kind of already identified in your journey that there's always been. There's been a reason. It's not like you've just taken a job and it's easy and that will do me until I retire kind of thing. You know, there has been a step up. So, yeah, I'll stick around and do a couple of years of that and then another opportunity presented itself, I'll stick around and do another couple of years for that. And then you're kind of, I suppose the longer you go, the more embedded you are within what they stand for and they obviously align with your own values as well. And when that happens, what's the need to move on.

Simon Numphud [00:45:17]:
Well, exactly. Well, and I think big values for me are trust and integrity. I think that. And humility. They're really important factors to me. And I just, you know, I'm very lucky. Not everyone has this journey, but I found something that I fell in love with and have remained passionate since the age of 17 through to now, you know, and I've just been lucky to find that early on, whereas some people find it much later and pivot or get into a career that they really love or follow something that they really. And I do believe that life is too short to do something we don't enjoy.

Simon Numphud [00:45:51]:
And that's a. That's a problem I never have. I never wake up thinking, oh, I've got to go to work. I love going to work. I love our industry. I love everything about our industry. I love the community that our industry brings. I'm sure you do.

Simon Numphud [00:46:04]:
Our industry is full of great people, and you feel part of a really big family. So our industry is really big, but actually it's quite small, if that makes sense. And I really like that. And actually, I get involved in a couple of charities within hospitality, which I love to do, and everyone is just so giving and generous. And actually, you do feel like that you are part of a movement, part of a collective that, you know, has generosity at its heart, is caring at its heart, but we have lots of fun at the same time. And I think that's a stickiness of hospitality, right?

Phil [00:46:36]:
Absolutely. You've kind of just written my marketing collateral for the next year of the podcast, to be honest, with that little rally cry at the end, that was the absolutely bang on message. But no, I mean, there's a couple of other things that I just wanted to touch upon, and they're just purely for my own benefit. I think it was just from your notes that you sent over, I just had to call this one out because it made me chuckle when I read it. I ask everybody a question privately, really, just to get you thinking about the stuff that we might talk about when we come on the show. Nothing is guaranteed that we would get to. But the question was, what are you bad at? And handwriting. Oh, and I didn't see that coming.

Simon Numphud [00:47:16]:
I can own that one, Phil, completely. I mean, you know, I often refer my writing to, like, a GP's writing, if that makes sense, so. And we had a conference this week with the team, and I was. I got chosen to be prescribed for. We have a quiz every year with our conference, and I said, are you sure you want me to do the writing because the marking team will not, will not be able to. I can't read my own writing. Okay. It's about Badlanda.

Simon Numphud [00:47:38]:
So. So, yeah, I am, I am. I'm definitely, I definitely be a world champion at that. I'm really confident.

Phil [00:47:44]:
Bad handwriting, whatever. What's the opposite of calligraphy then? That's. That's basically created your own writing style.

Simon Numphud [00:47:52]:
My sister's great at calligraphy, actually, but, yeah, I just, I don't know. I lose patience with handwriting, then it all becomes a scribble.

Phil [00:47:59]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do hear you. I can hold this up to the. If you can see that I've got a bit scrawly as well. And even sometimes I can't read my own handwriting.

Simon Numphud [00:48:08]:
So, yeah, I confess that is definitely something I can definitely own.

Phil [00:48:13]:
Very good. And then the other thing was a story involving carrot and ginger soup.

Simon Numphud [00:48:18]:
Oh, gosh. Yeah. So again, back to my days at the feathers. When I was in the kitchen, I was told to make a, I was asked to make a carrot and ginger soup, and I was convinced that Sonia had said, put all the ginger in it, so that's what I did. And that happened to be three roots of ginger. So, yeah, you can imagine her reaction when she tasted it.

Phil [00:48:37]:
So, yes, the soup was fiery, and she was fiery on the back of it as well. Yeah. But these are, it's these little things that I think are also what makes this industry so rich, just in terms of the stuff that you can look back on and you'll kind of chuckle at and you'll take learning from at the same time when you're going through it and all of that. And it's just, it just happens all of the time. And for me, it's one of the reasons why I'm head over heels in love with this industry. It amazes me the stories that come out of it on a day to day basis.

Simon Numphud [00:49:11]:
And I think reflecting back on it, our industry is so great as a learning environment, and it's a very empowering industry because you do have to take responsibility, but you have to accept that you are going to make mistakes along the way. If you've ever worked in a kitchen or you've ever worked in a restaurant, you're gonna spill something. You're not. You're gonna, you know, you're gonna muck up the soup. Right once in a while, so. But it's what's more important with all of these things. It's about how you learn from those mistakes and how you learn that and develop that experience, but you gotta make those mistakes in the first place, you know, otherwise you'll never learn. And I always encourage my team, you know, a very empowering style.

Simon Numphud [00:49:47]:
And I just say, you know, you'll make mistakes, but it's the only way you'll learn. And I get people come to me, oh, Simon really made this really bad mistake. And I said, look, let's put some context. No one's died, okay? We're still all here. That's the key thing. Human first, business second, and then, you know, what's gone wrong. And if you talk for it naturally and just say, well, you know, well, let's reflect on this, what would you have done differently? And use it as a positive learning and then rectify it. And we're very honest as a business, you know, we don't get things 100% right all the time.

Simon Numphud [00:50:16]:
And if we don't, we'll put our hand up, but we'll own it and we'll rectify it and we'll follow through on it. And we're deeply passionate about doing that. And that just comes from, I guess, a hospitality spirit that I've learned from over the years. You don't get things right all the time, but it's actually how you recover from those things is far more important than making the mistake in the first place. Because guess what? No one sets out their day thinking, I'm going to make a mistake. You just don't do that. But it's how you learn from it.

Phil [00:50:43]:
Yeah. I think you also highlight a really key point of leadership as well, is that actually half of that battle is creating the culture where people feel comfortable to own their mistakes, and they're not hiding them, and they're not trying to skirt around it or for fear of retribution or whatever. And that's a massively important part of building an excellent culture, I think.

Simon Numphud [00:51:05]:
Yeah. And I see my job for my team is to actually remove any barriers they've got to actually try to achieve what they want to, what they're trying to achieve. So that's often the conversations we have. First conversation always is, how are you doing today? That's because that's the most important thing for me. You know, it's about how, you know, because you never know what's going through someone's day or life at the time. So that personal check in is the most important thing for me. And then, you know, what's troubling, what's keeping you up at night at the moment? What's troubling you? How can I help you? And we talk about the sort of challenges we might have in the business and what, again, what the solutions might be and how we might try and overcome those together. And again, it's, again, not feeling that, you know, responsibility is all on one person's soldiers, because it's not.

Simon Numphud [00:51:49]:
There's a whole business responsibility at the end of the day, so no one should feel that pressurized or stressed because it's just another challenge we've got to try and overcome.

Phil [00:51:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what's keeping me up at night at the moment?

Simon Numphud [00:52:01]:
Yeah. What's happen?

Phil [00:52:02]:
I've just finished Dexter, and I don't know what to watch next.

Simon Numphud [00:52:08]:
Are you a bing booster?

Phil [00:52:10]:
I mean.

Simon Numphud [00:52:13]:
Are you patient?

Phil [00:52:14]:
No. When we find something, we're all in. Yeah, but it's rare that we find something that hooks us in and. Yeah, and we were just finished that last, the other week, and then the euros is keeping me occupied at the moment, but it's like, what do I do after the euros? Yeah, yeah. These are real, real problems, Simon.

Simon Numphud [00:52:32]:
Yeah, yeah, real problems.

Phil [00:52:36]:
Final question before I let you go on your merry way on this wonderful Friday, the future, is there anything that you could tell us about what's happening next with you guys? Have you got anything planned that you can share, or is it just a constantly in motion?

Simon Numphud [00:52:50]:
Yeah, our biggest, obviously, I've mentioned visit already and the simplification of the schemes. I mean, that's our biggest development this year, which was still rolling out and being well received by industry. Up and coming is we do a big award event in September for a thousand people at Grosvenor House. So we've been doing that for 30 years, so that always takes a bit of our time and attention because we do that ourselves and we love doing that. We've got Paul Ainsworth doing the menu this year, which we're excited about.

Phil [00:53:16]:
Yeah, really?

Simon Numphud [00:53:17]:
I've done the first tasting with Paul in Padstow, and I think it's going to be tremendous, but it's always a.

Phil [00:53:21]:
Was that over a lunch?

Simon Numphud [00:53:22]:
Sorry. Yeah, it is over another lunch.

Phil [00:53:25]:
Okay.

Simon Numphud [00:53:26]:
Okay. Maybe the kids are right.

Phil [00:53:30]:
Yeah, yeah, they're really wrong. Right. I mean, I'll never, never tell them that in public, but, yeah, absolutely. But, yeah.

Simon Numphud [00:53:37]:
So we love doing the award event. It's a really very special atmosphere, you know, close knit community, and I love that because industry come together, and as you know, industry is fiercely competitive, but they're the first people to celebrate other people's successes, and again, a very collective way. You know, we raise a bit of money for hospitality, action and room to reward, which is great. So, yeah, so that's really, that will take a big part of our focus past summer and into the autumn. From that point of view, obviously, I hope for industry that we do have a bumper summer because the first quarter has been quite soft with both the weather, cost of living, etcetera. So from that point of view. So, yeah, we're excited to, you know, it's been another positive year so far, so. And, you know, we just want, you know, the whole of the industry to do really well and hopefully don't know what our new government's going to look like, what color it might be.

Simon Numphud [00:54:26]:
But obviously we just want to make sure that, you know, they do all the right things to support our industry because I truly believe our industry is one of the few industries that can deliver growth. We were third largest employer anyway, I think it's really interesting to see today's news where there has been slightly more growth than expected. And guess where that's come from? Hospitality as well. The industry. So I think with the right conditions, there's a couple of pressing challenges that we need to get beyond business rates, VAT to make us more competitive on a global stage, but we can really accelerate growth for the country, both in terms of investment, turnover, more jobs. We are at the very heart of one society and industry. We underpin other things. I think sometimes people don't realize how interlinked and dependent hospitality is for so many other parts of our country.

Simon Numphud [00:55:26]:
And it's a joyous part of the industry as well. We bring fun and social engagement and cultural standing, etcetera. So it is so important and I hope we are given the right conditions to actually really fully flourish and deliver.

Phil [00:55:41]:
Another wonderful battle cry. And I think the thing that I would always ask anybody to ask themselves about, if you question how important this industry is beyond the economical impact that it has and the social impact that it can have, is actually just think about your own psychological well being. If your favorite pub, restaurant, cafe, anywhere where you spend any kind of meaningful time, either on your own, with your loved ones, with your mates, whatever that looks like, imagine if they're not there. Imagine if they're not part of your life, then what impact would that really have? You know, it's, well, we kind of got an experience of that, right? A little taste of that in 2020. And, you know, everybody just remember that when we were unlocked from being locked down, that everybody was chomping at the bit to get back into their pub, into the restaurant to wherever it is that they love to hang out. So, yeah, there we are. Battle cries galore.

Simon Numphud [00:56:37]:
I'll finish on one final thing. Hospitality is a great career. Great career. It should be, you know, it should be perceived as a career of choice because it's a wonderful industry. It's an industry that has no limits for a young individual joining our industry. You can go in many different paths. You become a managing director, a CEO, an entrepreneur, a business owner, you know, with transferable skills. And I think that's, again, very unique.

Simon Numphud [00:57:06]:
And it's an exciting and diverse industry to be involved in.

Phil [00:57:10]:
Hear, hear. That is a wonderful way to wrap it up. Simon, thank you so much. I'm so glad we got there in the end. And I wish you guys all the very best with the next phase. I actually did want to make the point about the awards and how important they are, because these are the moments where we can all take a little breather and just acknowledge excellence. And everybody works their backside off to make their places the best that they can be. And I think these nights are massively, massively important that we just take stock of how amazing we all are, whether you win or you don't.

Simon Numphud [00:57:42]:
Couldn't agree more. I think we need to spend more time recognizing how good our industry is. And that might be a small business, a large business, or anything in between. And it's also recognizing the tremendous commitment and hard work that hundreds of thousands of people commit to in their career within hospitality, making sure that people have great, great experiences.

Phil [00:58:01]:
Yeah. Superbike Simon, thank you so much. Wish you pleasure. And I'll catch you at something soon, I'm sure.

Simon Numphud [00:58:08]:
Probably another lunch, Phil.

Phil [00:58:10]:
Probably. Let's do lunch. Yeah. Nice one. Take care.

Simon Numphud [00:58:15]:
Thanks.

Phil [00:58:16]:
Cheers.