#201 - Hospitality Meets James Peck - Army Chef to Award-Winning Restaurateur

Phil [00:00:00]:
And a huge hospitality meets welcome to James Peck.

James Peck [00:00:03]:
Hello. Hello.

Phil [00:00:05]:
How are you?

James Peck [00:00:06]:
I'm good, thank you very much. It's not absolutely belting it down. So it's a bit less glum today.

Phil [00:00:10]:
It's been biblical, isn't it? The weather has just been insane.

James Peck [00:00:14]:
Yeah, it's been pretty rough, to be fair. And a lot of what we do kind of is in line with the elements a little bit. We do a lot of masterclasses and a lot of things outside. So when it does rain, it just creates another challenge. But, yeah, otherwise the sun's shining today, so it's a good day.

Phil [00:00:26]:
Very good, yeah. And let it be noted for the record that you started the conversation on weather. It's usually me, so I'm not taking the blame for that one. No, no, no. But, yeah. Before we get into this today, I kind of. I wanted to highlight how this sounds really kind of trite, but how I found you, because every year my brother and I do a motorsport weekend get together. It's a thing we bond on and it's kind of sacred in our lives.

Phil [00:00:52]:
And every place that we go and whatever we experience on one of the evenings, we always try and find somewhere really cool to go eat. Sure. And in this case, it was your place in Wellingborough.

James Peck [00:01:04]:
Wellingborough, Costa Del Wellingborough is the hotbed.

Phil [00:01:08]:
Of culinary activity that it is. Yeah. Restaurant Ember is the name of the place. Didn't realize that you were, you know, kind of. Yes. You obviously still get your hands dirty, as it were, and you're still on the path and you're still heavily involved in service, etc. But you're also quite clearly an entrepreneur. You've got quite a lot going on.

Phil [00:01:29]:
So just tell the world. Tell us about your empire.

James Peck [00:01:33]:
Yeah. So chef, typical chef, done the rounds London, that kind of thing. Trying to find your place in this world, sort of with a young family, young daughter, just the challenge of kind of working every weekend for someone else, and the challenge of family balance and stuff. And me and my daughter's mum were actually separated, so having my weekend whilst I was working, it just got to a point where it was just a bit too much. So I took the decision to can off quite a comfortable head chef, well paid job that there was plenty of progression in, and just sort of go at it alone. And the place to start, without any backing, funding or real direction, was to just do dinner parties in people's houses. I was quite lucky that when I left London and came back to my home county, Northampton, That I had a reasonably good rep. So when it came to advertising dinner parties, it wasn't kind of like a complete start from scratch.

James Peck [00:02:25]:
Although it was going on my own. It was like I had a bit of momentum. So see, I was cooking people's homes. I remember my first six months of it, I was using cool boxes and I parked down the road and hide the fact that I didn't have a big flashy fan and all this kit and stuff. And it's almost like the small fish in the big pond kind of giving off that big shadow, you know, I'd kind of trace to have a bit more of a infrastructure than I perhaps do. So you make exactly that and then I go and do kind of like a 9, 10 course tasting menu in someone's house. And I've got more and more of these jobs and it just grew to the point where, you know, I end up taking on more staff and I have more resource and I need a kitchen. It kind of organically grew into something a bit bigger than what it, what it was ever meant to be, which was just me, myself hacking my cool box.

James Peck [00:03:07]:
Kind of started in prepping in homes and dinner parties. And then, you know, oh, I need another chef of the weekend. Oh, we're in two locations this week. Oh, we've got a job Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, two on Sunday. Oh, can you do Christmas Day? Like there was just basically it just organically kept evolving into this kind of growth and we just kept kind of growing on and you know, every time there was a need for something, we'd then acquire it organically and it was very much a kind of go with it a little bit. And then it started turning into a bit more of a business in terms of, okay, we've got a wage bill now, right, We've got rent now. Okay, we need to register for vat. We've got a VAT bill now.

James Peck [00:03:38]:
And it kind of organically grew into what was supposed to be kind of a chef and a cool box. Just wanted a bit of independence to almost being slave to my like, you know, robbed my own back as it was. So like I was actually end up working more and I had more things to worry about and I didn't. I wasn't being left to have a, you know, a finance director or anything like that or necessarily a full blown bookkeeper. So it's like, okay, so I was doing the cooking, but then I was doing the, trying to do the accounts. I was trying to make sure supply. Yeah. So it turned out to what was Supposed to be for a bit of balance and that kind of meaning that I was working harder but for more.

James Peck [00:04:11]:
For more of myself. So I didn't feel like I was slaving away for someone else's gain. It was putting towards my future. So, yeah, and then done that. And then we became probably. Well, we definitely become the biggest and probably the first in the county that was a specific dinner party brand. So we do events and catering, but we were tailored more to creating events and memories and stuff in your house. So, you know, we go to all types of kitchens, beautiful big kitchens of people that very fortunate to have, like an amazing setup, better than some of the restaurants I've worked in.

James Peck [00:04:38]:
And we go and do dinner parties for 12 out of a shed with a little induction hold, no extraction. So, like, it was a good learning curve and when I look back on it, it gave me the opportunity to kind of like, be quite flexible and work around and kind of adapt a little bit. And I think that's where my problem solving plus comes in a little bit.

Phil [00:04:53]:
So, yeah, yeah, so we've kind of done this a little bit. Arse over tit, as it were. For one of a better phrase, talk to us about what you have now in terms of the.

James Peck [00:05:03]:
Yeah, well, yeah, sorry. So, yeah, right now we've got Restaurant Ember, which you've dined with us. So we've been there two and a half years. May this year, we took on and decided to buy a pub. One that we actually had during COVID but we were kind of like, I guess it was sublet to us for a little while. Like we would just take over the kitchen. It was like a need to survive. And then the opportunity came that we could actually buy the pub.

James Peck [00:05:25]:
So I'm currently sat in the newest. And then November last year, four doors down from Ember, we put in a cocktail bar, not opened November time last year. So, yeah, we've got kind of Ember, which is, I guess the flagship kind of brand restaurant, which allows us to be really creative. We've got kind of like the cozy pub, the Pears, which offers a bit more of a family kind of set up, and it's kind of Sunday lunch, working backwards and sort of lunches during the week. And then the cocktail bar, which has kind of an outdoor terrace where we do a lot of masterclasses. So, yeah, the three venues keep us pretty, pretty, pretty busy and they're all very different, which is really good. So it allows people in the team to kind of add value in certain areas where they can and, you know, have people with different nuances that can have better value in an open face kitchen. And we've got people that prefer to be in kind of the pub and cook more hearty.

James Peck [00:06:09]:
So.

Phil [00:06:09]:
Yeah.

James Peck [00:06:09]:
So, yeah. So that's the mini empire. Yeah.

Phil [00:06:12]:
Yeah. And that's actually something that I found really wonderful, having experienced Restaurant Ember was that openness to you guys and the fact that you were totally accessible to. We were lucky enough to dine on your bar, which is right in front of. On open flames in front. Watching your food basically be created right in front of your eyes or something really special around the theater of that. But then to have access to you to talk about that, you talk about why these flavor combinations are together. Where did this dish come from? And the thing that I always remember about that conversation was you talking about, well, this dish is actually from this guy here, you know.

James Peck [00:06:49]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:06:50]:
And I really, really love the cauliflower.

James Peck [00:06:52]:
Is it cauliflower?

Phil [00:06:53]:
That's right.

James Peck [00:06:54]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Phil [00:06:55]:
And it was like, you know, I love the fact that, you know. Yes. You've created something that's, you know, I suppose, still quite young, really, in the grand scheme of things, but is obviously moving forward.

James Peck [00:07:04]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:07:05]:
But part of that is bringing people along on the journey. Right. And you clearly are doing that with the, you know, allowing your guys to kind of bring creativity to the party.

James Peck [00:07:14]:
I think there's two parts of that. There's one which is more strategic underlying, which is I can't be the brand. I almost need people to develop within it and become. Have their own storylines. Because, you know, there are going to be times where I need to be another venue. I want to be supporting another project on the masterclass, and I need people to go in and know that those faces that they see in there. And pretty much all my chefs now have a profile to some degree where people know who they are, and it's like a journey that people are along with. So it's not kind of the James Show.

James Peck [00:07:45]:
It's kind of like, oh, you know, people recognize Hannah, that kind of thing, and they recognize that our other young chefs, and they've seen them on social. So we're pretty quite open with our staff, you know, when we're moving or promoting people. So, yeah, whenever people come in and add value to the business, it's all about celebrating them. So there's a strategic part, whereas it can't be the James Show. In order to grow the business, it needs to be about us as a brand and us as a team, but also Staff retention is key now. There's a lot of kind of people struggling to find staff. I found that treating my team like it's their business and it being completely immersive, inclusive. No people are happy, they don't want to leave.

James Peck [00:08:19]:
Like we have a chat about, you know, there's going to be a time where you're going to need to take the next step up for your development. You know, once you've learned as much as you can with me, you're going to have to probably go to London or out the way a little bit out of the county. Like the idea is almost scaring them. And where is that is warming to me. And it's like amazing. And it validates that you're doing a good job. It also is quite scary in terms of like development because I need them to move on, to develop themselves and for the next wave to come in. So, yeah, people having their own profiles and building their own stories, their own repertoire, I think is going to aid them and me.

James Peck [00:08:47]:
Staff attention. People love working with us. They love the open kitchen, especially the ember team, because they get that kind of gratification of. That was amazing, chef. And like, oh, this is Will's dish. And the Will comes over, talks about why put it on. And it's like they're almost getting the feel of it being their own business. So that degree and it inspires them.

James Peck [00:09:04]:
So, yeah, it's kind of like a two way thing where, you know, it's about, it's about the people in the business, but it's also about the brand not being held hostage by one person. You know, it's not all about me. And actually Will, who I think it was his second week, who I sort of introduced you to, was his second weekend and he was already putting dishes on and stuff like that blew my mind.

Phil [00:09:22]:
I don't think I've ever heard anything like that in my life in a really good way. But also then for him to have the confidence to come over and talk about. Sure. Like that's also really, really brilliant for the development. Right. Because I think a lot of the time from a kitchen perspective, people can, it can be a job where you can basically hide if you want to 100%. You just get in and do your thing and you don't ever have interaction with the guests or whatever.

James Peck [00:09:46]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:09:46]:
You know, so actually developing that side of somebody's personality I think is massively valuable.

James Peck [00:09:51]:
Yeah. I think it grows them their self confidence, I think for the customer point of view as well. Adding layers of that guest experience.

Phil [00:09:59]:
Yeah.

James Peck [00:09:59]:
So, like, they're not just in a kitchen, oh, that's a good plate of food. It's gone out. They're actually seeing the impact in the dining room. They see all aspects of the business, you know, will cost dishes before he puts them on the menu. Like, he has to understand that it needs to hit a certain GP for it to even be viable. Because Emba is so small, it means everything we put on it has to be viable. There can't be things on there for egos or something. That's a draw.

James Peck [00:10:20]:
It has to be a dish that's going to make money, that kind of thing. So, yeah, we've got all these different kind of aspects and the guys are adding more layers onto their skill set. Talking to customers how to. How to handle themselves, how to work clean and tidy under pressure, how to communicate without screaming and shouting, a little bit of diligence, you know, the. It's, it's, it's. It's a massive opportunity for a young chef to refine certain skills that are going to add value to them in the next step. If you are on a set, well, you know, you saw it firsthand. You're on a Friday or Saturday night, you come in, there's checks on, it's busy.

James Peck [00:10:50]:
We're not all screaming and shout on each other. Everyone's really confident, calm and organized and stuff. So I feel proud that we add that value as well as kind of, hopefully, techniques that kind of develop them.

Phil [00:10:59]:
So, yeah, yeah, Can't. Could not agree with you more. I mean, to, to. And it was busy when we were in, like, I don't think there was a spare table in the house. And.

James Peck [00:11:06]:
No, there's.

Phil [00:11:07]:
There was an atmosphere. You had DJ playing in the corner, you know, and. But still there's this serenity in the kitchen, which was. It was just. It was blowing my mind. Which is why one of the reasons why I was so keen to then kind of investigate with you whether you'd come on the show, because to me, this is. You were almost showcasing to me what is possible, like, all of this stuff that you might have heard about shouty kitchens, billing, blah, blah, blah and all that.

James Peck [00:11:33]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:11:33]:
But I don't doubt for a second that that still goes on in some places. But it's possible. It is absolutely possible.

James Peck [00:11:40]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:11:41]:
100% good leadership and direction.

James Peck [00:11:43]:
I think you're seeing now a lot of the big guys that are coming out sort of like your late 90s, early 2000s chefs, kind of like your. Your pinnacle chefs that we look up to. They've all kind of turned around now and sort of said, you know, I used to be that guy. I've learned now that to run a viable kitchen, to retain staff, to keep a solid, consistent team, consistency is a massive key word now in hospitality. People want to be consistent. They don't necessarily need to be the best or the cheapest or the most out there. They want to be consistent, you know. Screaming, shouting, losing chefs, bringing new chefs in, it doesn't work.

James Peck [00:12:14]:
It doesn't work. You know, no one's going to learn or even grow confidence if they're in fear of being screamed at or having something thrown at them. Because if you like. For me, I manage in a different way if something isn't quite right. I find it more powerful to bring everyone together or isolate that individual, depending on the type of issue it's been, and just talk them through where they went wrong, where they need to look at improving. And then you go again, if it's two or three times and there's another conversation, it's not working out. But generally speaking, you get a lot more from someone putting to one side, look, Zephyr going on the right. There's a lot of people going through a lot more stuff now than there was been or people more open to talk about.

James Peck [00:12:49]:
So making sure there's nothing outside of it bothering them first to hope to be overlooked and then, and then, and then just having the one on one. So, yeah, screaming, shouting doesn't really happen. I don't think I've ever shouted in my kitchen. I think the only time I've ever lost my rag, ever in a kitchen was when I was working for someone being bullied by a senior chef because it was put on to me and it kind of, it tumbled down like, you know, if you're being suppressed and almost pushed around and gone, I'd say bully to a degree, but not managed correctly, then it kind of forces you then to put that down. So I found it. You kind of product your environment a little bit.

Phil [00:13:21]:
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I'm finding all of this fascinating, but actually what I really want to do is delve back into your background in a bit more depth because, I mean, I obviously know a little bit about your background. Having we've had a couple of chats and also you filled out the form that I asked you to fill out. So take us all the way back to kind of, I suppose, school age, that sort of when you're starting to think about your life and times and what that Might look like. Where were you at at that point?

James Peck [00:13:48]:
I was the kind of kid at school that tried to distract myself and not knuckle down. I potentially had the capacity to do quite well, but I just. Not adhd, I would say, but just. I just. I was easily distracted. I'd be chatting to my mates. I just needed to get on with something else. I couldn't sit still for too long.

James Peck [00:14:09]:
I was in food tech and the irony is that I actually hated it. It was my worst lesson and to the point where you're supposed to bring your ingredients in and. And if you didn't, you brought your money in and they paid for the ingredients and I just found every excuse under the sun to get out of there. It was only till I got put next to someone that I quite fancied that it was a bit easier. And it was again, another distraction. I knew I wanted to join the army. My dad was in the forces. I knew I wanted to follow his footsteps.

James Peck [00:14:32]:
I didn't really know what it was coming to my grade time when I needed to sort of really make sure that I knuckled down and got the GCCs that I needed. I wanted to blow shit up. The technical term is Building and Structural Finishing in the Remy, the Raw Electrical Mechanical Engineers. I needed a C in maths for that and I actually got a D. And I remember my local Northampton officer saying, join as a chef or join as something else and you can redo your qualifications and transfer. So I was like, brilliant, yeah. My dad was absolutely fuming. Like, it was a really, really tough few months between leaving school, knowing that I'd failed and not achieved the qualification I needed.

James Peck [00:15:07]:
To bear in mind, I got like, Bs in English and science. It was just maths. It's a hereditary weak spot in our family. So I joined as a chef, redone my qualifications within my first six months once I passed on my training. And at that point, you know, I was coming. It was like a sitting guilds equivalent to like A to C or something. So I had the qualifications by that point. I was hooked.

James Peck [00:15:26]:
I was sent to Cyprus. I was competing, I was doing sports, I was making friends for life, you know, I was. I was based in Cyprus and just having the time of my life, like, obviously leaving school, not exactly sure, pretty much that I was lost or in like a space and time. It was almost like a stopgap before I was going to find my real career. Yeah, by then I was just. I was just enjoying it and I just. I got the bug for It. So it was like a real weird way into hospitality.

James Peck [00:15:48]:
So done seven years in the army, it's really got my head down. I was, you know, I was in a space where I had a lot of opportunities. I was doing quite well. I was regarded kind of head of my pack within my rank to a certain degree. I was doing private chef, cbf, which is Commander British Forces. So I was, I was having the opportunity to cook for really high ranking officers. So I was kind of exposed to, I guess that world of, you know, that high ranking officer is almost like your VIP guest say, so how to handle yourself and how to be around and how to be diligent and how to be composed and hold yourself, whether it's in a conversation or almost learning more refined cookery within the army, which don't really go hand in hand, you know, you think slop stews, range stews, that sort of thing in calories. When you think military, you don't think necessarily anything refined.

James Peck [00:16:32]:
But I was doing dinner pie. So, yeah, so, yeah, the military was, was how I got in, really.

Phil [00:16:36]:
Can you remember the moment whereby you thought to yourself, do you know what? Actually I could, I could go on with this cooking thing.

James Peck [00:16:43]:
Yeah, I'll be honest. Yeah, it was. So every year the military has a big cooking competition called. Have you heard of like Army Navy or the Tri Service Rugby? It's massive. The Army Navy, they have a cooking one. It's just less manly, I guess. Right, okay. But yeah, every year they compete.

James Peck [00:17:01]:
And I was based in Cyprus and I was picked to represent and it was called ofcs Operational Field Catering Services Competition. So we take a tent and all the kind of what you'd expect an army tent cooking setup to have. And we had to put like, we'll get given like a. You have to produce a four course meal for 100 people with these rations. 80% of it's from the dry store. 20% is fresh and you don't know what the fresh is until you get there. And I remember being paid, coming from Cyprus to Wembley to do this. I remember meeting loads of friends and thinking this was just amazing.

James Peck [00:17:31]:
And then we end up winning and doing really, really well and then winning like all island catering champions. And I was kind of like in my rank, I was the one that's. There was like one person from each rank that's put forward and I was the person before and we won and it was a bit like, I didn't think I'd like to cook in, but somehow it's working out. I'm enjoying it. And things, things you enjoy you tend to learn more and become better at. If something's a grind, you tend not to absorb so much information. But yeah, yeah, I remember that weekend. Just like I don't want to leave.

James Peck [00:17:59]:
This is a fun, you know, this is amazing opportunity. And also because it's so alien to me, I was learning a lot. So it wasn't on my radar. So it's like a whole skill set I wasn't even looking at.

Phil [00:18:07]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean some of these things happened by happy accident.

James Peck [00:18:11]:
Right.

Phil [00:18:11]:
I mean you just all you find yourself somewhere and go, well hang on, I can do this, I can do this.

James Peck [00:18:16]:
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it was. And then yeah, the military career sort of ended just after seven and a half years. I found out I was going to be a dad and I just, I just needed to be home for it and I just. And then I'll be honest. Yeah, I feel like my real culinary journey started then. It was like my first civilian employer was one of my high ranking military officers in the army who'd left the army after retiring for 24 years and he was running, he actually running the logistics for the Olympics and then went on to be an executive chef for a high end hotel. And that's where I really felt like, I feel like I learned to organize and hold my own and adapt and problem solve the military, but I feel like I learned to cook when I left. That's not to put down on the military came but I mean food fuel for military and then cooking for pleasure for certain for guests is two completely different.

Phil [00:18:55]:
Yeah.

James Peck [00:18:56]:
So I felt like I learned when I left but what I had, I guess other people was probably the background of managing stress and under pressure and the kind of situations and like learning to problem solve. So I feel like I had that. I didn't have the French gastronomy encyclopedia in the back of my head or I couldn't name you 10 famous French chefs at the time, but like you gave me 100 covers in a problem and I'll find a way to solve it the best I can. So I feel like I had that.

Phil [00:19:20]:
Little bit of edge that's a great grounding like for any and most environments that you'd kind of be put in front in any kitchen environment.

James Peck [00:19:28]:
Exactly.

Phil [00:19:29]:
Yeah. Well, I mean we can't, we can't let your, the army part of your story pass without talking about courgettes and cucumbers. Yeah, I mean I always hope to see on this show, but it was.

James Peck [00:19:43]:
It was in my first two weeks. So I've just passed out a training which is quite honorable. It's called you pass out parade where your family come to. And it's like one most people say in the military career, it's like the proudest moment because your training is where they, like, mold you and, like, they bring you in off the streets almost. They turn you into this, you know, machine and your fitness and stuff, like. And being screamed at. It's the hardest part because it's such a big transition.

Phil [00:20:03]:
Yeah.

James Peck [00:20:03]:
And I remember getting to my regiment and thinking, this is it, done it, let's smash it. And my unit had been sent to Afghanistan, so I joined and got to my regiment and my regiment were in Afghanistan. So you had a skeleton crew at the base. So there was like less than 100 people that normally be several thousand. And it was like, right, we're making packed meals for three months for all the guards and all the staff that are back, you know, the people that are integral to keeping the base operational. So I made. I made pack meals for three months. My nickname is Pac Meal Peck.

James Peck [00:20:34]:
So my first instance was just put in sandwiches into packets and crisps and shit and yogurts and shitty bars and stuff. But I remember using a mandolin and making. They said, right, you know, you need to get 3,000 cucumbers out and need to get them ready for sandwiches tomorrow. You preparate. You prep all the sandwiches the day before and build them the next day. So I'm there like, you know, I'm like an hour in and I'm just like. And it's like, quick apec, you know, so I'm keen, I'm trying to do everything quick. Missing fingers and toes and making sure I don't cut myself and get into trouble.

James Peck [00:21:03]:
And then it's the next morning, I'm putting these sandwiches together and someone must not have checked me whilst I was doing my job, because I still don't know. Workouts passed. But, yeah, it's like, who made the sandwiches? You know, bearing in mind this was like 3, 400 people who made the sandwiches. I'm like, me. So why I went fucking courgettes in sandwiches? Do you know something? Do you know something we don't? And yeah, and it meant I was on pack meals for a lot longer. I had to prove myself. And it's a laughing point after a while. But when you're in that moment, it's.

James Peck [00:21:29]:
You're like, I've just got it. Yeah. Yeah. So Pac Meal pep is something that sort of lives with me for a long time and lives rent free in my head. So, yeah, courgettes instead of cucumbers. So I personally think it was a revelation. If I'd done it now, I'd probably be looked at as a genius.

Phil [00:21:42]:
Indeed. Yeah, yeah. Again, sandwiches of their time.

James Peck [00:21:46]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:21:47]:
Or maybe you were ahead of your time.

James Peck [00:21:48]:
Yeah, I think that's what it was.

Phil [00:21:50]:
It's kind of almost like. It's almost like it could turn into a metaphor for your life, couldn't it? Like, you know, somebody gives you cucumbers, make sure you give them courgettes. That sort of.

James Peck [00:21:59]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. It was. It was just one of their moments where it's like, at the time, you didn't know because you weren't shown. And actually, there's a lesson for me to be learned now. It's like when you're showing young chest things and they do. They miss out something simple. It might seem simple to you because you've done it, but actually, if no one's shown you and you're at the beginning, you're fresh out the factory.

James Peck [00:22:17]:
Nothing's obvious. You. You're completely out your depth and relevance. So, you know, I've seen chefs use salt instead of sugar. It's like, well, actually, they look very similar, and. And it sounds silly, but, like, teach chefs how to check for that. Like. So, yeah, there's a lesson.

James Peck [00:22:29]:
Underline it all. There is a lesson. And maybe I wasn't being shown. Maybe someone overlooked the fact that I, you know, most people that have just come from school doesn't know what, you know, don't know what courgette looks like. And it's similar to a cucumber in some aspects. So, yeah, there's a lesson to be learned. But it's definitely. When you said lots of funniest things that happened that.

James Peck [00:22:43]:
That I think it was less than a second, and that was in my head. So it's definitely the one that stiff.

Phil [00:22:47]:
So, yeah, I. Funny, no. Funny, no. But not in the morning.

James Peck [00:22:50]:
Still. Still sweat about it. When I think about it, it's still funny, but there's an edge of light. I'm looking over my shoulder with someone to shout at me.

Phil [00:22:56]:
I suppose it's also. It's one of those things whereby I kind of almost. I like and respect the fact that rather than saying, well, we can't have him on sandwiches again, it's almost like.

James Peck [00:23:06]:
No, you'll learn to get it right. Yeah, 100%. I think that was a good. Another good lesson. Right. Because if you're not for something, it's easy to hide away for it. And pastries that for a lot of chefs, I'm sure you've spoken to a lot of chefs and like pastries, like a lot of people's Achilles here where they try and avoid it in jobs but sometimes you just need to face up to it and you need to stick out into you master it. So, yeah, safe to say I've got cucumber sandwiches down now.

Phil [00:23:28]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good. Well I look forward to one of them next time I'm in your OR sandwich. Yeah, I'd give it a go. I'd give it a go. Yeah. But yeah, so anyway, let's back to the. Back to the story. So you've made the transition.

Phil [00:23:42]:
What I mean talk to me about the transition from armed forces into civilian life, I suppose is what it's classified as was. It was a culture shock or how did you.

James Peck [00:23:52]:
Right, yeah, it was a massive. In my life having, having all I wanted to do and thought that I was going to spend my whole life in the military, it wasn't on my radar that I was going to be kind of coming out into, into Siby Street. Becoming a home was definitely, you know, your accommodation sorted and your healthcare sorted. You get paid at the end of every month and that's what you get and kind of, it's kind of disposable to a degree. Whereas leaving having to private rent, put deposits down, have a young child that I was 21, 22, I was, you know, although I was with my partner and stuff, it was a surprise to a degree and it was like, it was a real hit the ground running. It's like, right, I've got two choices now. I put my head down and do the best I can or I stay in the army and then I drag my family across the world, which I've seen. And being growing up in a family that broken because of the travel, I just didn't want to do it.

James Peck [00:24:41]:
So I thought, right, let's leave, let's join civil street. And yeah, I just got my head down the best I could. I started from the absolute bottom. And actually there's another funny story, it's not as long winded, but my first ever real high end job in London was a sous chef job. And being in the military, there's no French terminology, you know, it was ranks. So I applied for a sous chef job, trialed, got it. I remember my first property day, it was like a, it was like a kitchen full of kind of like Big Hungarian men. And the head chef was English.

James Peck [00:25:12]:
And I got me a down. I was there with irons, whites, clean shaven boots. They're like, you know, like, you know, they're all a bit more. They've been through the meal that, you know. Yeah, he'll learn. But, yeah. And everyone kept asking me what they wanted for them to do. Like the big sort of Hungarian chefs, like, sort of were.

James Peck [00:25:33]:
Chef, what do you want me to do now? What do you want to do? I'm like, motherfuck. Is everyone asking me what. What to do next? Why are they asking me? It's my first day or my first week and they're like, you're the sous chef. I went, yeah, yeah. Run to the toilet, got my phone out. Googled sous chef. I'm second in command in here. What the hell? And I mean, like a.

James Peck [00:25:50]:
It was called the Troubadour. It's a classic French bistro where John, who's on the Voice.

Phil [00:25:56]:
Oh, God.

James Peck [00:25:57]:
Oh, God sakes. Curly hair. John Summit. John. John Summit. Anyway, it's where he was discovered underground. It's not unusual to be Tom Jones. Sorry, that's where Tom Jones was discovered.

Phil [00:26:11]:
Might be the first person that's ever sung on the podcast. Well done.

James Peck [00:26:14]:
I like going above and beyond. So, yeah, my first job properly was sous chef job. I didn't know what sous chef meant, so I'm googling it. And basically the first nine months of that job, which only lasted a year because of just I was out. My depth was me Googling and problem solving. Can you get on with the. And they asked me to get on with the Oaxaca source. I'm like, yeah.

James Peck [00:26:31]:
She said, just nip into the loo. Oaxaca source. That perfect. Memorize that. Don't get my phone out of my pocket again and go in. And I managed to get through it. They must have known I was not ready, but I was still in the job. I was being paid well.

James Peck [00:26:45]:
Maybe it was a time and place where they were looking for chefs. But, yeah, I just got through it. Just with just getting googling and just being inquisitive and asking the question, can you make a chimichurri? Yeah, of course I can. And just being strategic. So, yeah, that was quite funny. My first sous chef job was just a complete accident. Didn't know what was.

Phil [00:26:59]:
That's a kind of hangover from the army then as well, isn't it? Right. Because that's like you just go into rather than. Oh, God, that's the problem. I'm going to deal with the problem somehow.

James Peck [00:27:10]:
So I felt like from a young age, especially having my daughter young and the military and then probably my first civilian job. Pressure and dealing with pressure quite early on was something that I found myself. I found it relatively comfortable being in a pressured environment and I found I thrived. It's not so the COVID pressures and stuff like that meant I was comfortable, but you know, just the general pressure of expectation and delivering on a time and a product was something that I felt quite comfortable when I felt better having a time challenge or a standard challenge to work towards. So yeah, I felt quite comfortable in that environment of if I don't know, I'll find out. Yeah, so yeah, but I think it helps years.

Phil [00:27:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So that was your first foray into civilian life. What happened next?

James Peck [00:27:53]:
Done the rounds in London. Went and work in some high end places. Went to work in kind of anything from like that classic French restaurant. I spoke about doing really high numbers and like beef bourguignon and coq a van and boulevard and like this classic brassery dishes to more refinement, doing like smoked up club club sandwiches that were like little snacks in like a high end place on the Michelin guide. Just got a taste of everything, just wanted to learn, wanted to find my place and then I end up at the Grove which is quite a well known golf rated hotel on the edge of, well in Watford, on the edge of London. Yeah. And then kind of got talking to someone that was on a golf day there that happened to be from back home. It was just crazy.

James Peck [00:28:29]:
Like moments like this don't come very often at the time. Talking to someone. Yeah, I'm from Northampton, you know, I'm opening a restaurant, come back and work for me. So I was coaxed back to Northampton but on London money which gave me an opportunity to bring together everything I'd learned and my kind of my work rate and stuff. And I was luckily because background there wasn't a lot of opportunity, especially one that was paying to a point where I was able to actually make a good living with having a young child at my age because most people look at you like 24, 25 now you're going to be, you know, whatever, we're going to use you a bit. So yeah, I was able to take a head chef job which was great. I felt at the time ready. Although looking back at it now probably wasn't because the business aspect of it was completely alien to me.

James Peck [00:29:06]:
But actually running a kitchen, running the team and a product, I was there, done that for A few years. And then I've just decided actually unfortunately just working for a couple of different employees in the county and the ethics and being exposed to not necessarily the nice part of business, you know, being promised equity if I met targets. Met targets and not being given equity and kind of just being used a little bit. And then I'd spent so long making a name for certain restaurants and putting myself out there and doing all the award stuff and competing and stuff and I was like just done with it. So that's when I decided, boom, I've had it. I'm gonna just go work for myself. Whether I live or die. My own sword, it's.

James Peck [00:29:40]:
It's by my own account. So yeah, that was kind of it just left London, come back and just. And just really tried to find my place. And like you say, isn't somewhere that's necessarily the. The culinary melting pot of the universe. It's not exactly the center point where everyone comes to me. Yeah, amazing meal. Not yet.

Phil [00:29:58]:
Everywhere has to start somewhere, right? I mean this was actually, this was one of the joys for me of finding. Finding your restaurant. For our excursion. You were literally four minutes away from where we were staying.

James Peck [00:30:08]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:30:08]:
And this is one of the joys of hospitality for me is stumbling upon somewhere which is what I did with your place. Didn't know you from Adam before and then kind of to learn about your journey to now be doing what you're doing. I think what I really loved about that little chat that we had on that evening was you talking about. You gave me like a 30 second snapshot of your journey and the fact that you, you had worked in some places that test you like, you know, and I don't mean that always on in a good way. Like you know, they test you in the wrong ways and you just talk. Spoken there as well about ethical issues sometimes. But sometimes I suppose you've got to maybe see these things in. In action to know that that's not you.

James Peck [00:30:48]:
Right.

Phil [00:30:48]:
And to know you've then got to go and be that change in the world that you want.

James Peck [00:30:53]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:30:54]:
You want to see.

James Peck [00:30:55]:
I definitely think that even, even places that I worked for people that necessarily weren't. Oh, it's hard to put this into context. Potentially going to a place that wasn't beneficial to yourself and maybe you were being used as a. As a part, like a stopgap for. For whatever reason or there's still a lesson to be learned from even bad managers, let's say. Even if I've been a part of the Management that wasn't passionate, even if it's at the worst case, just wasn't passionate. You learn. Okay.

James Peck [00:31:19]:
Because I can see the negative effect it has on the work team and how it flows down. So like whenever I become a manager or even, even as a head chef, I always sort of said to myself, I'd love to run a team where people know I've got their back, they've got mine. If I'm able to do something for them, I can. Within within means we always try and promote within. If there's ever a spot that comes available, I'm always gunning for the next person up. If it's a realistic transition, if an opportunity comes, there's always an opportunity to give my existing team the next rung up or the next opportunity. So I feel that these are lessons that I've learned from Nesso. Places that haven't been able to manage in a way where they are really caring about their staff.

James Peck [00:31:55]:
Because in this day and age it's a lot harder to run a restaurant, run a pub, run a business, let's be honest. So if you look after your team, they look after you. And I truly believe that that's kind of where people now are realizing there's a lot of value to be had in making sure your team, you know, you see in the four day weeks and you're kind of elite level restaurants and stuff, like you're seeing a lot more work friendly environments at the forefront of conversations now when you look at your kind of hospitality kind of shows where you get the likes of Tom Kerri comes in and but obviously says, I was an alcoholic, abuse my team and now realize to run, you know, like there's more honesty now. You've got the Burnt Chef project, you've got more people that talk about mental health like it's, there's no stigma in it now that treating people better is not only better for them, but it's also better for your business. And it's just at the forefront now. And I'm quite glad that actually working for a couple people that didn't necessarily have those values or morals, it's actually like, well, I've learned from them still. I've still learned something from them. Whether it wasn't a passion for cookery or passion to manage, it's actually okay.

James Peck [00:32:46]:
Don't treat them like shit. Don't watch them on the CCTV and ring them every two minutes going, why you sat down? Well, because I'm crossing my menu. Show me. You know, you smother people like that they're not going to work for you and they're going to start to resent you. So, yeah, that's why I think, and not trying to sound like Mother Teresa, but when you do treat people well, they work harder for you. So it's a mutual agreement. You know, it's. You know, we're.

James Peck [00:33:06]:
Our obligations are to make sure you're in a job, you're safe, you're secure, you're in an environment where you have everything you need. And in fact, you get not just the contracted hours and the work right. You get. You get that love and care and that passion. And I think embar is. It had to happen because we had to stand out. The way in which ember sits, in terms of being public facing, it had to happen because it had to be different. A, to separate yourself from the pack, but B, to give the chefs an opportunity to sort of see in fruition, like the hard work and the hours, it goes into the customers.

James Peck [00:33:36]:
And I think it's just. You see more open kitchens. I think aids into the kind of staff wanting to be part of something where they feel the benefit from. And it, like I say, it might just be the gratitude of Chef. That was freaking amazing. Who was that? Oh, it was Will. Will come and talk about your dish, you know, So I think it's. I think it's a really good full circle moment of, you know, just a gel team and.

James Peck [00:33:55]:
And everyone on this journey. So.

Phil [00:33:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'd add a massively important point that was probably going to change the world, but that's completely gone out my head.

James Peck [00:34:05]:
Sorry, King Waffle over here. Yeah, no, it's. I think. I think it's not often you get asked some of these questions. So actually, when you think about it for the first time and try and put it into words, it's like you're almost like, answering your questions for the first time. And I think that's why it's like, oh, yeah, I didn't think of it like that. So it's good to force you to think about why you do what you do, because you often overlook ways and you run your business and stuff.

Phil [00:34:28]:
So, yeah, yeah, I've remembered what it was. I was going to say the happiness point actually is a key thing. And actually maybe one of the best quotes that we've ever had on this show came from Phil Howard, who quite widely speaks about his own demons. We didn't cover that a lot on the show because it's been done. And the thing that he mentioned was Quite simply, it's amazing how hard people will work for you if they're happy.

James Peck [00:34:54]:
Yeah, 100%. And that is such a powerful tool. And my first head chef in my most refined restaurant actually was sous chef to Phil Howard. And he probably is one person that taught me the most. So actually, from him saying that to someone that has indirectly worked for someone that's worked for Phil Howard for so long, I can see that 100% guy called Nate Green. He's in Tokyo now. But he managed me individually in terms that he knew my strengths and weaknesses, and he worked on that rather than just kind of expecting everyone just to be this robot. So, yeah, that makes complete sense and is powerful.

James Peck [00:35:26]:
And, yeah, people will go the extra mile. My head chef here, he's not just a head chef. He can fix anything. You know, on his days off, he's in with a screwdriver if we've got a leak and, you know, under the sink and stuff like that. And he's fixing coffee machines, which is a lost cause now. But, yeah, like, you know, he doesn't have. People don't have to do these things on their days off, but they're invested in the journey. You know, they're happy and content in their job.

James Peck [00:35:45]:
So, yeah, 100%. I think it's. And it's good to hear people like that two mission staff, Phil Howard, that's one of Britain's best chefs and most kind of looked up to coming out. And I think it's good for those guys to finally open up a little bit and doesn't have to be every week that's rinse and repeat the story, because I'm sure they want to close the door on their path to a certain degree. They're all talking about moving forward and how powerful it is and admitting that things do need to change and are changing. So, yeah, so, yeah, it's definitely, definitely powerful.

Phil [00:36:10]:
Yeah, no doubt. There was something else that I kind of wanted to talk about, because you had an experience on tv, I think in terms of you were on a competition, which I'm wondering if that. The fact that you did some competitions in the army has kind of fed that side of you a little bit in terms of your ability to be able to compete.

James Peck [00:36:29]:
Yeah, I guess. I guess probably subconsciously. Yeah, the. The show, it was BBC2, the Chess Brigade, and it was. I think it was 2020 now, 2019. I can never remember. It happened just before COVID really. So it was really unfortunate because a lot of success personally come off the back of that showing A lot of opportunities.

James Peck [00:36:45]:
Then Covid kind of shut the door on it. It was quite an interesting period of time, but it was, it was like, it was more of a traveling documentary with a competitive edge. So there wasn't this big fat prize at the end, but you basically, Jason Atherton was the lead chef and we went around Europe competing. So we stopped talking like Puglia, Norway, Andalusia, San Sebastian and we finished in Lyon, in Paris and we go to these. Oh, listen, so basically when you said, you know, about the competence, like no, it's like what go around BBC2, one of the world's best chefs, you know, be paid to, you know, and, and yeah, so it was a time in my life that was absolutely phenomenal. And it was probably the first time I've been exposed in such a small amount of time because it was three months of filming and the amount I was exposed to just absolutely blew my mind. And we were all fighting for the top job. People got kicked off the show, swapped out, demoted, you got made kitchen porter and stuff like that.

James Peck [00:37:35]:
So it was like, it was amazing. And it was more of like, I don't want to test myself in a culinary way to see if I'm the best thing to slice breaks. I know, I know where I sit and I know the kind of food I like to cook and I know the kind of ingredients and techniques and stuff I'm exposed to. But I wanted to test my resilience and see like, if anything I've learned how do I fit in a team. You know, I was in my, you know, I think I've just turned 30. I'm not a 19 year old chef working at a two star, you know, it's like there'll be youngsters that will surpass me in terms of skill set in refinement and whatever. It's like where do I sit? And it was a good chance of like to figure that out. And it was a great opportunity to see like, can the skills I've learned from the military or kind of like a problem solving will they hold me in good stead and stuff against just someone that's been exposed to like the best cuts of beef in the world.

James Peck [00:38:18]:
But has he had the kind of experience to think for himself or is he kind of in robot mode where he's just told what to do? So it was interesting. So I was one of the more senior in terms of experience on there and it was interesting to see kind of like where I sat. So yeah, we went around some amazing locations, met some amazing people. Ate in some amazing Michelin star restaurants and got to work quite closely with Jason Atherton, which is absolutely mental. And it's quite weird actually. We found out that restaurant Ember One great Food Guides restaurant of the year and you've got a couple of restaurants on like the Bib Gourmand and kind of not Michelin Star but on the guides watch list on there. And like it's a real. I think there was only two of us from the county.

James Peck [00:38:56]:
So like it was quite. For me it was a more. It was quite crazy for me because it was an Allen county one. It wasn't just a Northampton one, which is quite a small pool of restaurants of a certain quality. This one was a bit more and I was sat with Jay Snapton when we found out we won that and I think I sort of couldn't believe it. We were quite lucky to go to his new restaurant opening and it was the first time I sat there and I thought about the whole journey. We were on TV show with him and I'm sat in his restaurant and I just found out my restaurant has done well. It was like this surreal moment and it blows my mind.

James Peck [00:39:20]:
So yeah, last couple of weeks have been quite cool. So yeah, the show, the show's brought so many opportunities to the point where even now I got to meet Spencer Metzger who's now back to Open Row in London. They just won two stars out in Dubai and I sat on a coffee with him last week just because I said yes to an email about going on a TV show. Like the opportunities to meet these people and kind of get my foot in the door and become somewhat a friendly face to the brand where if I go into kind of Jason Athleton's restaurant, stuff like that, it's like a, it's a warm welcome and hello and like you always kind of get met with warmth and stuff and like that wouldn't have come about, I wouldn't have been exposed to like kind of high caliber elite chefs even on a personal level to have a cup of tea and a bit of advice for. I wouldn't have had that if I just didn't say yes to an email that come through about are you interested for auditioning to a show? So yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, it was. But for me I'm sure there's chefs that have had similar crazy stories like that. But so many crazy things have happened in my life because I said yes to certain things and just gone for it and took a bit of risk.

Phil [00:40:15]:
So yeah, like coming on a podcast like this.

James Peck [00:40:17]:
Yeah. Which is, which is wicked though. But the thing. No, but you know what? It's good because you don't ask. You're asking me things that I've not asked myself. Right, okay. And podcasting, like. Yeah, but you don't, you don't, you don't think about this too often.

James Peck [00:40:29]:
It's quite nice to reflect, actually, because chefs hospitality, everyone's thinking forward, thinking forward, and it's all about adapting. Overlooking the next challenge, actually, it's quite nice to look and just stop and think. Well, I've done some wicked stuff and quite proud of some of the stuff we've done and stuff that people we worked with and worked for us and stuff and where they've gone. So, yeah, it's. It's definitely a surreal. And it's why we do it, isn't it? It's memories and things to look back on. So. Yeah.

Phil [00:40:48]:
Yeah. And I think that there has to be some kind of deep rooted thing within you as well. Especially now you're a business owner and, you know, you are kind of. You are front and center in that business. You're still involved, you're still having interaction with your guests and all of that. There has to be something deep within you that, that takes joy in.

James Peck [00:41:06]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:41:06]:
Watching other people enjoy what you do.

James Peck [00:41:09]:
Yeah. I think my fulfillment now is less like the young chef that just wants to. I've never been a chef that wants to win anything. And I've never, never shot out and like, my goal is an award or anything like that. They're lovely and they're great for the team. My. When I was younger, it's about trying to do the best food I possibly could. And everyone think that we were the best thing.

James Peck [00:41:27]:
And it was like a bit of an ego ride, which is, I think, ingrained into all young chefs. If you're competitive, you want to try and be the best you can be and separate yourself from the group and you kind of, I guess deep down, everyone wants to be kind of like appreciated for their work. Right. To a certain degree. Now in my older age, you know, older age.

Phil [00:41:41]:
Not trying to say I'm old, but.

James Peck [00:41:43]:
No, but it's like my chefs that I, I took a chef on that was pot washing for five, six years, and. And she had six months of kitchen experience. She comes work with me and with two years, she won Young Chef of the Year in her first year, and she's now in the last for a Senior Chef of the Year. And I've got Two other chefs in the category that. One of them was electrician a year ago, and the other one was a plumber. And it's like, my reward now is not only, like, bums on seats and having a busy restaurant, which is not only a business need, it's also, like a validation of, like, you're on the right path, people enjoying your food, but people seeing people grow within your business. It's like, it's a beautiful feeling where you can see people's. People just going from bumming around college and not sure if they like it, to earning really good money, entering competitions, doing really well, winning them, and.

James Peck [00:42:27]:
And having a job that they're really passionate about. Like, you know, on their days off, they're going out to eat in restaurants together, and they're meeting up, and there's a lot of that, and we do it quite a lot. So right now, I get my reward from watching my team kind of excel in the area. So that's. That's quite nourishing. And, like, I'm an ambassador for, like, the local college. So go and do a lot of stuff with the colleges and a lot of talks and things like that. And, like, it's quite.

James Peck [00:42:48]:
It unlocks, like, a new bit. Whereas I'm still learning myself. Like, I'm an aspiring entrepreneur is how I look at it. I'm aspiring to sort of really find this space and do well in this space, but I'm still learning as well. So I don't want to sit here and think, I know it all. I can teach everyone. It's not the case. But as I'm learning, people are learning with me, and I think that's amazing.

James Peck [00:43:05]:
So, yeah, yeah, that's. That's quite powerful. So I'm finding, like, this new kind of motivation now of just working with my team and bringing them up and seeing what they go on to do. So and trying to kick them out of the business one day for them to go and do something else, that's going to be hard. Like, literally, I'm gonna have to kick people out this business for their own development and for their own benefit, because we've got youngsters that are quickly rising the ranks, and they need a place to go. They need. You know, so it's getting to a point where it's like, you know, the next year, I need to be looking at the next step for certain people for their own benefit. You know, not that I have to let people.

James Peck [00:43:33]:
I want people to go, but it's like they're the kind of people that are on a trajectory and they need to find the next step. They need to go and learn the next thing from someone.

Phil [00:43:39]:
So, yeah, I was just talking to somebody. Connor O'Leary from the managing director of Glen Eagles, had him on the show yesterday, and we were talking about exactly the same thing. It's like, when it's somebody's time to fly, you have to let them fly. Right?

James Peck [00:43:53]:
You have to.

Phil [00:43:53]:
And yes, there's a. There's a little pain moment for the business and for you, because they're. They're friends and all of these different things, but actually, you know, it's. It's just the right thing to do.

James Peck [00:44:04]:
Yeah, it's hard, though, because everyone wants to retain their staff. Right. And people find it hard. So it's like finding that kind of point where you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot and you don't want to force someone that doesn't want to go. But if you truly want. If you're invested in your team and you want the best for them, they'll come back on. Like, there's nothing to say that, you know, my sous chef here now goes to London for two years and comes back as a head chef and hopefully another opening one day or even an existing business with even more skill set, knowing, you know what, it was good working for them. That was a good place.

James Peck [00:44:30]:
And now I'm in a position where I've learned even more and I can come back and add more value. So those people always come back round at some point, and I think that's fantastic. And I always make jokes. We've got a young guy here called Dylan. He was. He was the electrician. Even a year and a half, and he's flying. He's been promoted to us, and he's on fish now.

James Peck [00:44:45]:
You know, he's absolutely flying. And that's what I said. In 10 years, if we're not working for you, there's been an injustice. So, like, there's a bit of, like, a joke about it. Whereas, you know, we want to come and eat in your restaurant in 10 years, and, like, that's not going to happen unless you keep learning. Keep learning. And when you got to a point where there's a roof on your learning, you have to jump. So, yeah, it's completely correct.

James Peck [00:45:00]:
Yeah, I think it's definitely harder for, like, a place like Glen Eagles and these. These big places because they have bigger holes to fill with staffing. So if they're thinking like that, that's amazing because it's. It's A lot harder to fill those kind of kitchens that are a lot bigger and require a lot more sort of labor, I guess.

Phil [00:45:15]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But, well, if. If enough of us do the right thing and continue with this kind of mentality, then, you know, ultimately it just becomes what the industry is known for. So that's why I believe I will show you that until the cows come home.

James Peck [00:45:28]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Phil [00:45:30]:
Great. Well, what was the story about you putting a knife through your hand? Don't know if you want to cover that.

James Peck [00:45:34]:
Oh, God, yeah. I don't know if you can see. I don't know if you're about to see it.

Phil [00:45:39]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep.

James Peck [00:45:40]:
So we've just taken. Just. Just taking the pub on and I think I'm on the phone to suppliers. It's like, opening week and my. I've got, like, things to slow cook or whatever, and I'm waiting for my orders, my deliveries. It's like your first delivery. So you, like, do the guys know we're here? Is it a new drop for them? And I've got my phone kind of, like, pressed up my shoulder and I'm turning potatoes for, like, our first big Sunday where we've got, like, a light booking. I'm turning, turning, turning.

James Peck [00:46:03]:
And then I kind of just like, remember just feeling this tingle in my hand and I kind of looked and I put my little pairing knives through and it just poked out here. Oh, good.

Phil [00:46:13]:
For a context, if we're just listening to this. Latched all the way through your hand, basically.

James Peck [00:46:18]:
Yeah, it was. And. And I was like, oh, I'm quite surprised. It didn't really hurt too much. It was just like a bit of a warm tingle. And then slowly but surely, my hands started to do that over the course. It's like I managed to get through Sunday lunch, but my hand was closing like, my muscle was contracting. And basically I found that I cut nerves in my hand, in my fingers.

James Peck [00:46:36]:
So I think my four fingers here, I cut. I clipped something that meant that basically I couldn't really feel them and they were contracting into, like, this mandible claw. So I was trying to calf beef and it got to the point where for beginner service, I was fine, but the end of service, I just had, like a bald.

Phil [00:46:52]:
Exactly. Have to go to ad.

James Peck [00:46:54]:
Well, the thing is, it's like it was me. It was like. It was like day one, week one. So it's like, you know, my team is quite. Strike. We're looking for teams. So I just had to crack on. But I ended up having surgery on my hand the day after, and I had to get straight back into work and just had to do just that to get on with it.

James Peck [00:47:08]:
And I felt kind of almost felt I had a lot more respect for, like, Michael Caine's. All of a sudden I was like, the fact that he can do what he can do and achieve with one arm, it's like, this will heal and it's incredible. Yeah. But I just remember throughout the day kind of doing that, and I thought. I remember taking pictures of it. I was like, probably have to go to hospital now.

Phil [00:47:22]:
And I just.

James Peck [00:47:23]:
Like Michael Jackson claw. Yeah. So, yeah, it was. It was. It was a funny story now, but the scars not faded and it probably won't. So it's a reminder of, like, trying to do too much at the same time and just the dangers.

Phil [00:47:34]:
Right.

James Peck [00:47:35]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:47:36]:
Focus on the one thing at hand.

James Peck [00:47:38]:
Yeah. Most of us chefs are only really good at doing one thing at a time anyway, to be fair.

Phil [00:47:42]:
Yes.

James Peck [00:47:43]:
Yeah. And that's definitely what I've learned now. So.

Phil [00:47:45]:
Brilliant. Final question then, really. I suppose this centers around the future. What's next? I mean, it feels like you're growing quite quickly. Is that just a case of you just see an opportunity and think, yeah, that makes sense, what we're trying to achieve.

James Peck [00:47:59]:
Yes and no. I think three sites happened quite quick, but they were organic in the way that the restaurant had to happen. Because coming out of COVID and we just had to have something. We had to put something in the marketplace that was different and something to build from. That was like a necessity for us carry on as a business. The bar was a byproduct of the restaurant because there was nowhere. There was nowhere to go for a drink before and after, nearer. So it was like an opportunity to capitalize.

James Peck [00:48:23]:
And to this day, it does exactly what we wanted to. A place to go before and after. Because you've been into Ember, as soon as you open the door, there's a table there. There's no to stand and wait. So if you're early or late for your table or late leaving your table, so that was a necessity because we had people just standing in the doorway, so that had to happen. So, yes, it was quite a quick one, but it was like a necessity. So we kind of look at that as making them a little bit bigger. The pub, as I said, we had shared it during COVID and I sort of said if the pub ever came up, I wanted to be the first one to get a call.

James Peck [00:48:48]:
And that happened. And from getting the call to getting the kids was a six week gap of solicitors and buying and everything like that and trying to get it all, you know, so. So it felt like a rush. But there are three decisions that I know if I had a year to make them or six weeks, I would have made the same decision. Right now, growth is in spaces isn't necessarily something on my radar. It's making sure what I've got and consolidate is really bomb proof. Our lease is actually up in July next year at the restaurant in Ember, you know, and my brain now is more space, more space because my waiting list is bigger than the restaurant most weekends. And it's been like that for two and a half years, so.

James Peck [00:49:23]:
And Ember's not big enough really to really grow from. So my next step is potentially putting Ember somewhere it can grow and capitalize on the demand that we've worked so hard to gain. So the growth will be potentially looking at a space where Emma doesn't lose its industrial and kind of like relaxed nature and its position in the marketplace, but also somewhere where we can grow and I can look more, I can grow my business from here. So we're looking at options. There might be space to kind of like grow within the court. I'm not too sure it's a discussion we're having. So at the minute, I couldn't think of anything worse than taking on another liability just because it's a staffing thing. It's a staffing issue at the minute.

James Peck [00:50:00]:
That'll be a guarantee. That'll be a pattern emerging when you're speaking to people about staffing. A lot of good places will retain staff, but there's just not enough staff for everybody. So. Yeah, so, yeah, I could open up a restaurant tomorrow or, or a business tomorrow. Great. But would I find people to run it straight away or people that have our core values and DNA? Probably not. So right now it's about making sure we protect what we've got.

James Peck [00:50:21]:
The pub is only in its six month now. We've got some investment for the garden from our drink supplies. We've got some exciting things coming up in the upstairs that's just been done so within our business. There's actually already room to grow without having to branch out. So I like being able to touch anything I'm involved with. I don't like the idea of something too far away or something I. I can't do. So between Ember, the pub and the bar, I can be at either one of them within 15 minutes and I think I love that.

James Peck [00:50:46]:
And at the minute that's enough. I mean, my modern day success I think is probably the same. A lot of people, it's just surviving, comfortable, making sure you can pay your bills and absorb the rising costs that are being thrown at us and absorb the labor costs that are going up and yada, yada, yada. So like my success now is like just having a business that can run itself to a certain degree and then just making it better and better. Don't ever want to be the kind of person that thinks, oh, just because we've got one at work, two or three, because actually that's sometimes the biggest fall from our. So yeah, that's where I'm at, what I've got and really try and make sure I can get it the best it can be.

Phil [00:51:18]:
Yeah, but I like that in itself is a great message because, you know, I, I recruit for the industry and there's a lot, there's a lot of investment still heading to hospitality, which is great, it's wonderful. But this has kind of made me realize that actually maybe I used to look up at investment houses with wide eyes and jealousy about their capability of a business and all that kind of thing, but sometimes I wonder whether they've thought things through because as you quite rightly say, at the moment we're creaking at the seams really on staffing. So if you're going to bring in 10 more things into the world that all need to be staffed, where are they coming from? That needs to be the question you ask yourself.

James Peck [00:51:54]:
The colleges are quieter. I think we had a really good backbone of labor. Like I say when I would first come into the kitchens, you have a lot of Hungarian, Polish chefs, you had a lot of labor come from other countries. You know, that's diminished now. So it's like, and there's a lot of people in this country that don't want to do certain jobs or they don't want to be waxes and they've got kind of like a, kind of like a time and place now where a lot of people leaving school, they kind of want mega money and they don't want to work weekends. And like, it's just, it's just things have changed and changing so we just have to adapt with it. So you're completely right. Those people have to come from somewhere.

James Peck [00:52:25]:
Restaurants and hospitality, it's a saturated market, right. So if you've got the same pool of people just circulating around, it means any one point sign somewhere is kitted out with stuff but the other person's absolutely, you know, wobbling at the knees and probably looking to shut because they can't. They can't get it open. The amount of pubs that we see locally shutting and actually across. Across the UK shutting, most of the time it's because they can't find a share or the offering is not good enough. So then the footfall, you know, so it's. It's just death by a thousand cuts. So, yeah, I think.

James Peck [00:52:49]:
I think you're right. Correct. It's just. It's just concentrate on what you've got and protects what you've got. I think at the minute there's a lot of people flourishing, like Jason Aftons, the guys that own Fallow and stuff like that. You've got some amazing business that seem to grow and grow and grow. There's some special ones to celebrate, but not everyone's journey or trajectory is the same way. So I think it's just kind of understanding the journey that we're on and the brand that we have.

James Peck [00:53:06]:
So what kind of business we are.

Phil [00:53:08]:
Yeah, yeah. Not bad for a guy who couldn't concentrate on anything at school.

James Peck [00:53:15]:
Or can separate a courgette cucumber.

Phil [00:53:17]:
It did. Yes, it did. Well, you know, the, the funny thing about that is, as well, the, The. The next mistake like that is just around the corner, right? You never know what you don't know and all of that, so you just have to take them on the chin and take the learning and enjoy. Enjoy it for what it is and then crack on. But look, I. I'm so glad that we made the choice to come and dine with you that evening. It was.

Phil [00:53:42]:
It was an amazing experience. I can't say anything highly enough. If you're listening to this and you're ever in the Wellingbury area, look up Restaurant Ember and book yourself a table, because the food is amazing. It's what. It's nicely priced. It's like, not super expensive. The experience is. It's right in front of you and you can tell that everybody that's in that business just really gives a monkey about what they do.

James Peck [00:54:04]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Phil [00:54:06]:
And we need to shout about places like you because, you know, that's. This is what hospitality should be, 100%.

James Peck [00:54:14]:
And also appreciation for, like, yourself for doing this and shining the spotlight. Because diners are one thing, but if you're not local to us, you might plant a special trip now. So you know yourself like the people you have on as well. We're all very thankful for people yourselves that make the time and effort to really do shed a spotlight. Because it's not just the chefs and the business doing a fantastic job. It's people like yourselves that put time and effort and the passion into research and showcasing. So, yeah, a massive thank you on behalf of probably everyone else talent that you shine a light on. I think it's fantastic, and I don't think I'm going to be able to, the way it's going.

James Peck [00:54:45]:
Doesn't want us to retire yet.

Phil [00:54:47]:
No, definitely not. Definitely not. Brilliant look. Wish you all the best with the next phase, whatever that looks. I'll definitely pop in anytime I'm in the neighborhood and.

James Peck [00:54:55]:
Sure.

Phil [00:54:56]:
And thanks so much for your time.

James Peck [00:54:57]:
No, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

Phil [00:54:59]:
Take care.

James Peck [00:54:59]:
Cheers.

Phil [00:55:00]:
Thank you.