#204 - Hospitality Meets Linden Beattie - From RAF Dreams to Hospitality Scenes

Phil [00:00:00]:
And a huge hospitality meets. Welcome to Linden Beattie.

Linden Beattie [00:00:02]:
Thank you very much for having me.

Phil [00:00:04]:
Well, thank you for having me. I'm in your gaff.

Linden Beattie [00:00:06]:
Well, always welcome. It's only down the road.

Phil [00:00:07]:
For you it is. Yes, yes. And this is the. I suppose in a part of me thinks why is it taking me this long to consider down hall when it's just around the corner and I know it quite well and all of that kind of thing and I suppose it's just life, life gets in the way and you crack on with what you're doing and you realize actually there's a really cracking local business here to me, let's go and have a chat. And that came about because of something which we'll talk about later in the show, I'm sure. But where are we and what do you do?

Linden Beattie [00:00:35]:
Well, we're at Downhall Hotel, Spa and Estates. So we are based just on the Essex Hertfordshire border. We're a 98 bedroom hotel. We have 10 dedicated meetings and event spaces. We're set in 110 acres of gardens and grounds. Within that we've got a two acre kitchen garden, paddle tennis, tennis, short tennis, play park for the children, long tennis.

Phil [00:00:55]:
Sorry, long tennis, medium tennis.

Linden Beattie [00:00:57]:
Yeah, everything in between. Tennis play park for the children, trim trail around the woodlands, an intimate spa, three restaurant concepts between the garden room, our Fox bar and terrace and our Potting shed restaurant that we launched a couple of years ago. And I think I mentioned we're 98 bedrooms and I think you asked who am I or what am I? I'm not sure which way it was, but I'm the general manager of Downhall Hotel. I've been here for the last two and a half years.

Phil [00:01:22]:
Yeah, well, geez, I mean I've lived in this area now for 12 years or something like that. And by God, you guys are like the very definition of evolution from what I remember it to be to where you are now is quite remarkable actually.

Linden Beattie [00:01:38]:
It's changed a lot. Yeah, I can only say I've been involved in that journey for two and a half years. The journey has probably been a little bit longer than that. But yes, we've come quite a way. We're very, very fortunate. We're privately owned. Our owners have been here for coming up to 40 years. Very, very good to take a long term view and I'm sure we'll talk a bit more about what we've done at the property as we go into the show.

Phil [00:01:56]:
Well, as lots of people won't know before we turn the microphone On. We've already done a podcast.

Linden Beattie [00:02:01]:
I think I spent the day with you.

Phil [00:02:03]:
Indeed. Yeah. Absolutely. Loads of interesting stuff to kind of get into as well. But the most interesting thing that we want to get into first is you. So take us all the way back to the beginning of your life and times. And how did you get into hospitality in the first place?

Linden Beattie [00:02:18]:
A bit of a mixed bag, I think in some ways you could say I fell into it, but I fell into it and found a passion. So I had a very clear career plan. From the age of about 13, I knew I was destined to join the Royal Air Force. Yeah, that was what I was off to do. I was like Top Gun inspired. Not quite, no. I grew up in rural North Wales and what I think excited me about joining the Air Force and I wanted to join as a physical training instructor. I was quite big into sports, into fitness.

Linden Beattie [00:02:45]:
Like the idea of the sort of adventure that could be offered, the stability that the Air Force would offer. Nine year contract progression opportunities, good salary, chance to move away from the area. Not that I disliked North Wales, but was looking for something maybe with a bit more where there was a bit more happening. And that was always my career plan. My hospitality career goes right back to when I was about 11 years old when my friend Illegal, not sure. We won't mention the venue in case it's not. I think it was sketchy at best. My best friend's mother worked in a hotel and they were a bit short for a kitchen porter one day, so he went in to help out and he managed to get himself a job there.

Linden Beattie [00:03:23]:
So he landed himself a part time job on a permanent basis and I hounded and hounded him for a job because I wanted independence and money and I was pretty much told, they won't take you on, you're 11 years old. I said, well, so are you. But of course it turns out his mum's quite close to the owner, in fact now married to the owner of the hotel. Pretty close, yeah, yeah, pretty close, I'd say. Anyway, by chance, one weekend they were short staffed, he phoned me up and he said, look, any chance you can come into work? I think he phoned me up on a Friday night, said, any chance you can come into work tomorrow? I said I'm there, what time? And that was my first job. Started off KPing, spent a few years there, had a big career move to take on a role as a KP in a different hotel. And from there really I was obviously going through school, liked working, had started to find A bit of a passion, I suppose, around food. The chef in charge of the kitchen had trusted me to plate up some desserts and I just got a bit more involved with the kitchen side of things and I found this real passion for food.

Linden Beattie [00:04:17]:
So I'd gone from being KP to I think what you'd call somewhere between a commie chef and a chef de parti. Fast forwarding a few years to the point I was 16, I'd moved out, needed to support myself. Couldn't join the Air Force till I was 18 anyway because of the rank and role I was looking to go in at. And I'd got more and more into food. I was working at this venue full time, supporting myself, really enjoying chef inside of things. But in rural North Wales, it's an exceptionally busy season through the summer, an exceptionally quiet season through the winter. So the owner of the property approached me. He was excellent.

Linden Beattie [00:04:49]:
This was a relatively small 20 bed boutique hotel. So you know the owner, you know everybody that works there, you know, it's not some huge brigade. He approached me and said, look, not sure what your plans are for the winter, but just conscious you're supporting yourself. I'm willing to do my best to uphold your hours as long as you're prepared to be flexible in terms of department you work in. I said, yeah, absolutely. I don't mind what department I work in. You know, the hours are key to me.

Phil [00:05:12]:
That's a great opportunity actually, in terms of the exposure that it might then give you to other parts of the business.

Linden Beattie [00:05:18]:
Oh, fantastic. Yeah, really, really good. I did some time in maintenance. He didn't offer me a role in maintenance, which perhaps suggested I wasn't very good at that.

Phil [00:05:24]:
How's your DIY skill?

Linden Beattie [00:05:26]:
Well, I'd say pretty good. Not sure he would housekeeping. But importantly, really, which was the game changer was he offered me some shifts in the restaurant. And I suppose working in a kitchen, you always have this concept that it's the most important place to be. You know, the hub of the kitchen is the most important place to be. And I still have been in a kitchen now or the kitchen environment, but actually having that first hand impact on the guest and their journey and their experience and the impact you can have on them was a real turning point for me and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I worked through the winter and the owner said to me, look, you seem to be pretty good at this. I know your career plans are the Air Force, but just want you to know if ever that plan changes, there's always a job Here for you.

Linden Beattie [00:06:06]:
Which is an exceptionally nice thing to say to somebody that's 17 years old.

Phil [00:06:09]:
Okay.

Linden Beattie [00:06:10]:
I've worked for him for about three years at this stage.

Phil [00:06:12]:
Trust had been built.

Linden Beattie [00:06:13]:
Yeah, it had, yeah, absolutely. I think so. And probably a combination of that conversation and the opportunity to work front of house was what made me realize that the RAF wasn't for me. Right. So that went out the window.

Phil [00:06:24]:
So that went out the window, I suppose, before you'd given it a crack.

Linden Beattie [00:06:28]:
Oh, yeah, yeah. I was very genuinely at the point where I'd done my aptitude test. I was all ready to sign up. I just wasn't older enough.

Phil [00:06:33]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:06:34]:
So I was all. I ticked all the boxes, all in. But I was pretty close to.

Phil [00:06:38]:
Yeah, but you cashed your chips.

Linden Beattie [00:06:39]:
Yeah, I did. And I just thought, you know what, I've got to sign a nine year contract. I would be 18 at the point I'd have to sign a nine year contract. Doesn't seem like a long time now, does it? Nine years, but at the time, nine years aged 18, feels like a long time thinking I'm going to be. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, quite right. Good math. And I just.

Linden Beattie [00:06:56]:
I'd had this love for hospitality and it wasn't that I no longer wanted to join the raf, it was that I had found something that I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing. And as much as I enjoyed the kitchen side of things, and I had a real passion for the kitchen, I just couldn't see myself doing it aged 50, 60 years old. Whereas the front of house side of hospitality, I knew it was what I wanted to do for life, or at least I thought that's what I wanted to do for life. I still feel that's what I want to do for the rest of my life. I've got a few years ahead of me in my career, I hope, and that was a real turning point for me. The RAF went out the window and hospitality became. And you were the focus. Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:07:31]:
I set myself the goal then. I knew I wanted to achieve one or two things, either to own my own hotel or to be a GM of a hotel. I didn't really know what being a GM of a hotel meant at the time.

Phil [00:07:42]:
Sounds good though, doesn't it?

Linden Beattie [00:07:43]:
It does sound good, in fairness. Yeah. It has a nice, nice ring to it. I still like it even now.

Phil [00:07:47]:
I always remember when I was a kid, I got inspired by the movie Pretty Woman. Not.

Linden Beattie [00:07:52]:
I'm not sure where this one's going.

Phil [00:07:54]:
That's a hell of a setup, isn't it just. It was the hotel that they. I think the Beverly Wilshire, I think it was in the. In the movie. And just how like debonair and suave and cool the hotel manager was the main point of contact.

Linden Beattie [00:08:07]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:08:08]:
And I remember thinking to myself, yeah, that's cool. I could. Yeah, I could do that.

Linden Beattie [00:08:12]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:08:12]:
And that was at the time where I was working, working in inverted commas for my mom and dad in there. Your tiny little hotel on the Western Isles of Scotland. And I remember thinking to myself, so why do you like that. Like that thing that you see in la. But you don't really get on well with this hospitality that's right in front of you right now. And I don't have the answer to that. Maybe it's glitz and glass. Perceived glitz.

Linden Beattie [00:08:35]:
Glad.

Phil [00:08:35]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:08:37]:
So I stayed working at that hotel till I was 22, 23. Would probably still be very happily working there now if it wasn't for the fact that I knew if I wanted to build my career, I needed exposure in larger venues. Different venues, different styles, working with different people. So an opportunity came up. I was quite keen to move away from North Wales and just experience something different. An opportunity came up at Barn and Broom Hotel in Norfolk. So I moved from the west side of the country over to the east, moved to Norwich, took on a role as F and B outlets manager. Barn and Broome is a.

Linden Beattie [00:09:10]:
It's actually as a hotel. It's only 50 bedrooms, but it's a resort. It has about 45 timeshare apartments on the site to 18 hole golf courses, large leisure club, good sized spa, squash courts, tennis courts, sat on a few hundred acres. So it's a real different proposition going from a 20 bedroom intimate hotel to what felt like a beast at the time. We were talking earlier, weren't we, about size and scale and actually at the time that seemed phenomenally huge. Where now not so much.

Phil [00:09:36]:
Well, yeah, I suppose you don't know what you don't know, right?

Linden Beattie [00:09:38]:
Yeah, absolutely. And the hotel was just beginning on the day I started, January 9th, quite a few years ago, it was just starting a refurbishment project. So that was very exciting. It was going to be encompassing the FB outlets. So it was a great opportunity for somebody like me who had not that much experience because really I'd worked in one venue.

Phil [00:09:56]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:09:57]:
So I was there for other side.

Phil [00:09:59]:
Of the country as well.

Linden Beattie [00:10:00]:
Yeah, other side of the country, yeah. I took a. Took a large pay cut actually to go there. Went on to a salary for the first Time in my life, you know, having worked for Martin up in North Wales, he paid me for every hour I worked. So through the summer, if you worked 100 hours a week. Not that you ever did, of course. No, no, great. Got paid for the 100 hours, moved to Norfolk, took a pay cut.

Linden Beattie [00:10:18]:
It was a different time to worry about that. I don't think anything can be used against anyone now, can they?

Phil [00:10:22]:
Not from back then.

Linden Beattie [00:10:23]:
And it was great exposure for me. I worked for a GM who'd come from a background as F and B director for Sandy Lane. So great background to learn from in terms of F and B. So really, really good exposure, learning processes and procedures. And also I think when you're working in a relatively small venue, it's quite easy to lead just by setting the example. You've got a relatively small team, generally they'll follow your lead if you're hardworking and you're loyal and you set the right example to them. When you inherit a different team across departments, you think, well, I can't just set a good example because that's not enough. Because can't be two, three, four places at the same time.

Linden Beattie [00:10:58]:
So I best learn this art of actually trying to manage people and get my head around that. And that takes a bit of learning and coming to terms with and setting your own policies and your own procedures and training. Because, you know, I haven't really been exposed to that much of all of this previously. So I spent two years there, thoroughly enjoyed living in Norfolk. But my girlfriend at the time, now wife, wanted to go to university to study for her Masters. And commuting from Norfolk up to Nottingham wasn't feasible.

Phil [00:11:24]:
No.

Linden Beattie [00:11:25]:
Well, so she tells me. So we.

Phil [00:11:27]:
That's just what, four and a half hours, isn't it?

Linden Beattie [00:11:29]:
Yeah. Each way. Yeah, I think a nine hour round trip's perfectly achievable. She hopefully she doesn't listen to this and so it was sort of time to look for a new job. So I spent two years at Barnum Broome. Opportunity came up at Cambridge Quine Miller Hotel. It was, I think felt very risky at the time, was a three star property. I'd never worked in a three star property, nothing wrong with it, but I just worried that maybe I'd go from a four star to a three star.

Linden Beattie [00:11:51]:
Would I ever go back to a four star? But the owners at the time were very keen to improve it again. Refurb project starting, new GM coming in, wanted to raise the standards. They had a large property portfolio in Cambridge that they wanted to enhance but also they wanted a hotel that they'd be really proud of. So took a gamble, gave it a go. Spent two years there as the F and B manager. Seemed to go pretty well. We did get the four stars, thankfully, and up to four silver stars and a couple of rosettes for the restaurant. So it was a great journey.

Linden Beattie [00:12:21]:
And then I was fortunate enough to be promoted to Deputy GM for two years and it was a great time in my life. I thoroughly enjoyed my four years there alongside running Quire Mill Hotel. The owners had set us this sort of task, really more set the GM the task of doing something with the land. It's on about 15 acres just on the outskirts of Cambridge. So quite fortunate to have that land on the doorstep of Cambridge. They wanted us to raise the profile of the venue in any way we wanted by using some of the land. So we came up with a concept which was a not for profit concept that we would put on the Cambridge Raw, which was the birth child of the GM at the time. And we ran not for profit events which were aimed at raising the profile of the property, bringing people to the hotel to experience the service and hospitality and raising funds for charity.

Linden Beattie [00:13:09]:
So over the course of the couple of years or the few years that it ran and I was there, we donated over £100,000 to local charities, which was fantastic to be involved in.

Phil [00:13:17]:
That's brilliant. Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:13:18]:
Great exposure to running events in a. In a marquee. Typically they were in temporary. It was a temporary structure that we'd put up. We would consolidate them into a fairly short period of time while still running the day job. So of course you'd have a suppressed two or three months where you had what felt like five jobs at one time.

Phil [00:13:33]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:13:33]:
And then for the rest of the nine months you could go back to having your normal day job. So it was again, great exposure, learning larger events than I've been exposed to, where you've got a thousand people coming in, where you've only been used to dealing with a couple of hundred. Had a great four years and purely got to a stage where I didn't feel there were really many opportunities within the hotel and that the hotel was going anywhere different. I decided actually I was going to start to look for a new role and did. And an opportunity came up at. Why Boston Lakes Resort, which is.

Phil [00:14:04]:
It's a name that's very familiar.

Linden Beattie [00:14:05]:
Okay. And I don't know why It's Cambridge, Bedfordshire border.

Phil [00:14:09]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:14:10]:
It is. It's a privately owned but very large resort. So 406 bedrooms in total.

Phil [00:14:14]:
Wow. Right, so now you're talking beast.

Linden Beattie [00:14:17]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So how by UK standards, it's big by American standards, as we were saying earlier, it's, you know, why Boston Lakes actually is small fry if you're talking Vegas hotels. Yeah.

Phil [00:14:27]:
I think your words were bed and breakfast.

Linden Beattie [00:14:29]:
Yeah, bed and breakfast to the Vegas guys. Yeah, absolutely. But to go, this seemed like a great opportunity. So the hotel itself or the resort actually, if I explained that it's probably easier for anybody listening. The resort's made up of three venues. 103 bedroom hotel with a very large spa and 18 hole golf course attached to it. 120 bedroom event center and 183 bedroom training center.

Phil [00:14:50]:
And then very clearly segregated.

Linden Beattie [00:14:52]:
Very clearly segregated, yeah. A couple of minutes walk from one to the other.

Phil [00:14:55]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:14:56]:
All with their own.

Phil [00:14:57]:
That's quite clever.

Linden Beattie [00:14:58]:
It's very clever. Yeah. Very, very clever. Concept was actually built as three conference and training centers. And then during the recession of 2008, 2009, they realized that actually to a degree, all our eggs are in one basket. So one of the menus was turned into a hotel. Just to give a different string to the bow, the Y spa was put on. Y spa has a capacity of about 50 guests per session.

Linden Beattie [00:15:17]:
So a good sized, proper spa. 375 employees. So again, versus coming from a background where, you know, it was more like 100 to 150 employees. Going to 375 was very, very different. The exciting part for me was that the director of operations who had taken me on was stepping into the role of MD because the MD was retiring. So there was very clear progression, opportunity, all things being well, to go in as hotel manager and then to join the senior management team and be promoted to general manager, which happened after about 18 months of joining and it was a great period of my life. We refurbished the entire ground floor of the hotel, which was a very exciting thing to be part of, totally repurposing it, bringing some event space into the hotel which it massively lacked. Excuse me.

Linden Beattie [00:16:01]:
And then of course the inevitable happened. In Covid. We were very fortunate that we picked up some business and it was very small business versus the normal resort business, but we had the east of England ambulance service in training. So I was exceptionally fortunate. I worked pretty much right the way through the pandemic, set up a home office and on like day three of lockdown and I think by day seven of lockdown, didn't really need to use it because I was able to set.

Phil [00:16:22]:
The home office, not the home Office, yes, yeah, exactly. Wow. I was like, what, you set up the home office?

Linden Beattie [00:16:28]:
Sorry, a home office? Yeah, no, definitely not involved with the home office. And if I was, I probably couldn't tell you.

Phil [00:16:33]:
No, I did. That'd be really cool though.

Linden Beattie [00:16:36]:
So at this stage in my career, I'd been GM for three years, I suppose, very, very happily working at YBoston Lakes Resort. Two children at this stage. One was coming up to two years old, the eldest. Youngest was three months old. One January afternoon I had a call from a recruitment agent saying, bloody recruitment agent. I know, they have a lot to answer for, haven't they? And the recruitment agent said, oh, just fancied a quick catch up. And I thought, yeah, I'm sure, yeah.

Phil [00:17:02]:
That kind of catch up.

Linden Beattie [00:17:04]:
And then came the. Came the inevitable. No, I'm sure, yeah, wouldn't be in your cards. Then came the inevitable. Can you talk? I said, yeah, I can talk, yeah. There's an opportunity at down hall, they're looking for a gm. Are you interested? I said, well, look, I'm very, very happy where I am. I have a nearly two year old and a three month old.

Linden Beattie [00:17:22]:
I'll be very honest. Why Boston Lakes I think has another one or two years in it for me and I think that I can give back for one or two years and then who knows? And anyway, we spoke about Down Hall. I knew of the venue and of course was instantly drawn to this flashback from when I'd been here as a guest to this Italian eight style mansion. And it certainly did spike my interest. But I said, I'll go along for a coffee but never hurts. No, I know, I know. So I came in, I met the MD on a dark January evening and actually we sat in this room here and had a bit of an interview.

Phil [00:17:54]:
It's playing such a massive part in your life this year.

Linden Beattie [00:17:56]:
Yeah, it's probably where they'll sack me as well. It will go full circle. The interview seemed, well, coffee and conversation as it was on a Sunday evening seems to go quite well. And I knew I was in trouble. I drove to the end of the driveway, I turned left, I phoned my wife, she answered, I said hello. And she said, her words, not mine, she said, oh shit, you want the job? And I said, well, when he says.

Phil [00:18:16]:
Hello, it was all from the tone.

Linden Beattie [00:18:17]:
Yeah, it was all. It was known. And I said, well, no, I haven't said I want the job. And she said, so you're saying you don't want the job? I said, no, let's not be hasty. I definitely haven't said that. And then was invited for a second interview and. Yeah. Got offered the role and the rest, as I say, is history.

Phil [00:18:30]:
Yeah. And. Well, indeed. Quite a lot to unpack here for sure.

Linden Beattie [00:18:34]:
Over to you. I can take a breather.

Phil [00:18:36]:
Yeah. So do the old finger crunching, but when. I'll just, I suppose just focus on that for a little bit. The. What was it that, like, had you.

Linden Beattie [00:18:44]:
In with Mount Hall?

Phil [00:18:45]:
Yeah, but I mean, you know, it's very easy for me to sit here and look at it and go, you know, the sun is out today as well and we're in a beautiful autumn day and always is. Yes, well, that's Essex, right?

Linden Beattie [00:18:55]:
You're correct.

Phil [00:18:55]:
That's what people don't understand about Essex is that, you know, it's. It's in its element when the weather is like this, as most properties are, I guess. But what was it that you thought. Yeah, this is because, as you say, you had comfort, and comfort is a very important thing to happen when there's family decisions to be made and things like that. So it's not an easy decision to come to, to, you know, I suppose, take the perceived risk.

Linden Beattie [00:19:20]:
You are sounding more and more like my wife.

Phil [00:19:23]:
I did a. I know I was hard.

Linden Beattie [00:19:25]:
You've had a conversation, haven't you? Yeah, no, it's a really good point. And I think that, look, the venue is absolutely stunning, but. And it would be very easy to be seduced by a venue in terms of. It looks fantastic.

Phil [00:19:35]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:19:36]:
But I have known plenty of people that have gone to work in exceptionally attractive properties and found that they weren't aligned with the culture, that they didn't enjoy working there. And I think that you can very easily, you know, that the. The appeal of a property when it's your office can very soon wear off. I have to say I'm two and a half years in and it definitely hasn't for me. And I still drive up the drive and I get a very similar feeling to driving up the drive two and a half years ago, so I'm exceptionally fortunate. But the actual appeal was the potential that it had. Like many businesses, it had had a fairly torrid time. Through Covid, we were fortunate that we had the Great British Bake off filmed here, so we did have some business.

Linden Beattie [00:20:13]:
So you could argue we had it better than other businesses. But as a result of that, our recruitment campaign had started later because we had the Bake off in filming when the final lockdown was eased. So our recruitment campaign was later than many of Our competitors. So that made it challenging. Very few staff, you know, 85 staff members. I think when I took over as GM, we now have 185. So that'll give you an idea of perspective as to where we are.

Phil [00:20:37]:
Absolutely.

Linden Beattie [00:20:38]:
It had had some good investments but there were far more investment planned. And I suppose the real bit that got me were the conversations that I had with the MD on that Sunday night and then the MD and the owner on the Tuesday night when I went down to London to meet them for a second interview.

Phil [00:20:51]:
God, that was quick.

Linden Beattie [00:20:52]:
Oh yeah, there was no. I mean I had a phone call from the agent on a Friday.

Phil [00:20:55]:
On Sunday evening.

Linden Beattie [00:20:57]:
Yeah, typical agents. Yeah. Genuinely, I think I had a phone call from the agent on a Friday morning. Agreed. Interview Sunday night. Second stage interview was Tuesday night and by the following Friday they'd offer me the role. And I love business song in there.

Phil [00:21:08]:
Isn't there somewhere?

Linden Beattie [00:21:09]:
Yeah, I'm sure there is. Yeah, there was. I love companies that operate like that and if they don't, if they think you're not right for the role, let's say, I'm sorry, we're not going to be progressing you. Right. I know I can move on and look for the next thing if I'm looking.

Phil [00:21:20]:
That in itself probably plays its part. Right. Because you think to yourself, well look, if this is how they make decisions, they make decisions quickly, then if I'm to be at the helm of this property and to try and realize its potential, then you're going to need that kind of quick decision making. Right. You're going to need it from the support upwards, as it were.

Linden Beattie [00:21:39]:
Exactly. And it also shows there's not some huge chain that it needs to go through. It wasn't a. Look, we think you'd be great for it. We'll get back to you in two, three, four weeks. We think you'd be great for it. We have got one of the candidates to see now. You were a bit of a last minute candidate to come in, so we'll let you know as soon as we can and hopefully by the end of the week.

Linden Beattie [00:21:55]:
And sure enough they did.

Phil [00:21:56]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:21:56]:
So I think it was those early conversations and it was clear that the three of us were very much aligned in where the property should be taken.

Phil [00:22:03]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:22:04]:
And that is to be a top end four star hotel. I think we were pretty clear on, albeit I didn't know the property exceptionally well. I had a good feel for the property. The owners were very honest and apologized for painting a bit of a bleak picture as to where we were with, you know, recruitment. Yep. Yeah.

Phil [00:22:19]:
But that's also quite appealing.

Linden Beattie [00:22:21]:
Absolutely. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, you know, the owner apologized. I've since told him. I don't think he was quite honest enough or the md, sorry. But I said I'm not sure. You're not sure. It was bleak enough, but that was the way things were.

Linden Beattie [00:22:30]:
You know, you have to remember, you've.

Phil [00:22:32]:
Got to downplay you've got it. Yeah. Their optimism, despite how bleak it might have been, you've got to downplay that even further.

Linden Beattie [00:22:38]:
That should be. Absolutely. And you have to remember that we're sat here now two and a half years on. What we were experiencing at down hall was not that dissimilar to what our competitors were experiencing. We were all experiencing it. But what it meant from the point of view as a GM coming in was there was this phenomenal potential. The hotel hadn't performed well or as well as I felt that it could in recent times. So that gave opportunity, there was an opportunity to build a team.

Linden Beattie [00:23:00]:
But we did have 85 employees. So it's not like you're coming in and nobody knows what's going on. I'm very fortunate that I've got some great employees, some at management level that have been here for 18 years. I've got a financial controller, revenue manager that I have 18 years of service each. So know the property exceptionally well. Also means you've got an opportunity to bring some new people in. And I think that was really the appeal, the fact that the owners were prepared to invest as long as they had confidence in the management and they've stuck to their word. They've been very good all the way along.

Linden Beattie [00:23:28]:
You know, they've put in big investment in the last two and a half years and I think we've come a long way in that time. But that was really the appeal was not the very luxurious looking building that you see when you drive up the driveway, but it was the opportunity to make a difference and take it from what was operating at a lower mid end of four star to a top end four star and who knows where we go?

Phil [00:23:48]:
Yeah, I think it's a massively key point. You raise around like it is very easy to get wide eyed around a beautiful building. Right. And you can probably visualize yourself in these walls and making a difference. But actually then if you're not backed up by ownership by your md, by the team who are here already, then it's kind of all for nothing.

Linden Beattie [00:24:10]:
Yeah, absolutely. And those first six months were tough.

Phil [00:24:12]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:24:13]:
You know, they were a really tough six months. You've got 85 team members and we were on restricted, like many places. We had 98 bedrooms, weren't able to sell them. You know, we were more going to like 30% occupancy. 35% occupancy.

Phil [00:24:24]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:24:25]:
Because we didn't have the team members in. It was the right decision. Very fortunate that the owners allowed that. But of course, you can't run a 98 bedroom hotel with a 30 something percent occupancy. It just doesn't stack up.

Phil [00:24:34]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:24:35]:
And for anyone that's seen the place, they can probably imagine the electric bills.

Phil [00:24:39]:
Yeah, Even that just makes me feel, I feel the twitch coming on.

Linden Beattie [00:24:42]:
Yeah, me too. You get to see, watching the weather forecast, thinking, oh, no, more energy next week.

Phil [00:24:48]:
Yeah, indeed. Yeah. But again, that's great to hear. Kind of there's this wonderful alignment going on. Up, down, sideways, left, right, all of that kind of stuff. How did you like when you come into a building like this? And I appreciate this now sounds like a job interview, a podcast interview. You come into a job like this and you realize that you're immediately fronted with challenges to get past. As you said, as a lot of businesses would have had the same kind of challenges at the time.

Phil [00:25:18]:
How do you take that on? Do you have to just draw up this list and go right, we can attack this, this and this. Well, I'll leave that for now and kind of do it that way. Or how do you do it?

Linden Beattie [00:25:27]:
Yeah, pretty much. And I think you have to be honest both ways. You have to be honest to the owners and the MD and say, look, this is where we are today. Just because I've walked in a door doesn't mean we're going from 30 bedrooms to 98 because that will crucify us. And I guess we'd have a really bad experience. I think that the initial short term goal had to be how do we build up to the point where we can service 98 bedrooms.

Phil [00:25:50]:
Yep.

Linden Beattie [00:25:51]:
So everything had to be focused on that. So that then is building up the team being really clear with the team about what it is we're trying to achieve in the short term. And of course, conscious. I'm always conscious when I take on a new role. It's not right to go in on day one and start making changes because there's so many things that happen in. Every hotel has its own nuances and its own ways of operating. And some of them with a fresh set of eyes make absolutely no sense. And if a month later, they still make no sense then probably they make no sense.

Phil [00:26:15]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:26:16]:
Some of them on day one make no sense. And by week two, you're thinking, oh, I get that now. Totally understand why we do things that way here, because there isn't one playbook for every hotel in the uk. So that was the initial goal. But this is probably stealing the principles of the managing director, Steve Jones at Y Boston Lakes Resort, who kind of drilled this into us in a very positive way, that his five key points to success were building the right team, making sure that you have the right infrastructure in place, getting your policy decisions in line, and really tight. Policy decisions. Sometimes that can mean saying no to business, sometimes that means. We were talking earlier about where we allow wedding guests to go and not go.

Linden Beattie [00:26:52]:
Well, of course, if you say you're not allowed to go there, that's not a very nice way of saying it. But if you're really clear around, get out. Absolutely. But if you're really clear that you want to keep wedding guests separate to leisure guests, that's a policy decision. The question then is, how do we make that happen? And how do we show people around in a way that they had, take their photographs at a time and a place that you want them to and gives them a great experience. So having your policy decisions, being really, really clear on your plan, and then executing your service, if you do all of that. I haven't even mentioned profit in there. If you do all of that, everything else takes care of itself.

Phil [00:27:21]:
I was going to say the profit will come back at that.

Linden Beattie [00:27:24]:
It will happen. I think that what is very difficult is that to come in on day one, month one, even month two, and sit and write a great big business plan is really not something that you can do because you don't know the business well enough. That needs to wait till month three, probably. And in truth, that will then evolve. Month four, five, six, and after month 12, you'll be reviewing and revisiting it and realizing that some bits weren't quite right. And you'll be tweaking and editing forevermore, frankly. Yeah, but the absolute key is saying, where do we want to be? Have we got the right team to get there? And if not, how are we making sure that we've got the right team? What do we do around infrastructure? We were talking earlier, weren't we, about around the potting shed? You know, we had the garden room restaurant that was used for breakfast. That's.

Linden Beattie [00:28:05]:
That's got 60 covers, we've got 98 bedrooms. So on a busy Sunday, morning with 200 covers. How on earth are we going to service breakfast? Because we're going to have to do three and a half revolutions of the restaurant just to fit our guests in.

Phil [00:28:16]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:28:17]:
Otherwise their experience is going to be a function room on a trestle table, sat on a banqueting chair. It's not a nice experience for a leisure guest, let's face it.

Phil [00:28:24]:
Especially if I suppose you're trying to get uplift on rate and all of that as well, and expectation goes up as a result.

Linden Beattie [00:28:30]:
Lasting memory is breakfast in a function room on a trestle table. It's really not aligned to the experience that we want our guests to have. So the infrastructure was, and I remember the fb, outlets manager, restaurant manager, as well as at the time, sort of stood there scratching his head one busy morning, trying to move the buffet table slightly just to cram another couple of covers in and remember saying to him, the buffet table's not the problem. You've got to think bigger. The room is the problem. We're never going to make it work. So we got the infrastructure in place and we launched a potting shed which gave us a second dining space which we serve breakfast in every day. And now the garden room just gets used as an overflow.

Linden Beattie [00:29:04]:
And now we never serve breakfast in a conference room. So it's really important to get that infrastructure right. If your policy decisions are clear and your service is good, then the plan actually, to a degree, starts to right itself and you can steer it really easily.

Phil [00:29:16]:
Yeah. God, it makes it sound so easy.

Linden Beattie [00:29:18]:
Well, as I say, it's not mine. I'm stealing all the thunder for it. But it's Steve Jones's concept that you drilled into me.

Phil [00:29:23]:
Well, and also, it's not easy. Right. It's the most complicated thing in the world and you earn every penny of your leadership.

Linden Beattie [00:29:30]:
Well, we try.

Phil [00:29:31]:
That's the message.

Linden Beattie [00:29:32]:
Yeah. Thanks very much. Hopefully the MD's listening. Did you say every penny and more?

Phil [00:29:36]:
Yeah, that's right. Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll come back to this as well because I obviously want to talk about where that evolution has taken you to, but actually I made a couple of notes as we're going through your journey and you very kindly kind of ripped through it. So we just need to pick it apart a little bit.

Linden Beattie [00:29:52]:
Absolutely.

Phil [00:29:53]:
KP's. Like, you're maybe the first person that I think I've spoken to who made a move as a KP from one place into a different. I don't think I've ever come across that before. Yeah, it's.

Linden Beattie [00:30:05]:
But also that big career move at 14.

Phil [00:30:07]:
Well, you know, great experience, though, and I've spoken about this before on the show. What a cracking job it is like, to get your head into this industry.

Linden Beattie [00:30:17]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:30:17]:
Because it's like the beating heart of the kitchen. You know, everything, like, you know what's going on, who does what and all of that. It's a really great training ground. Not just actually teaching you discipline and all of that kind of stuff, but actually just seeing how a kitchen works.

Linden Beattie [00:30:33]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:30:34]:
And the central point that the KP.

Linden Beattie [00:30:36]:
Plays in that massively. And, you know, you're 14 years old, you're being exposed to a working environment, surrounded by lots of adults that you're generally looking up to, I suppose, because they've got this skill and craft. There's an adrenaline buzzing around the kitchen on a busy service that you're getting to see. You're learning the value of graft because, let's face it, it is. It's hard work. Bits of it are not overly pleasant. It's probably not the most salubrious of jobs you're surrounded in. You know, you are elbow deep in Greece for a lot of it.

Linden Beattie [00:31:02]:
But I think it's a very rewarding job and I think it's a great first job. I feel very lucky to have had it to your point, around the first person to have moved from one role as a KP to another role as a kp. I wonder, if I hadn't made that move, would I even be in hospitality?

Phil [00:31:15]:
Wow. Right.

Linden Beattie [00:31:16]:
Because I may not have been given that chance to go front of house. And also I moved from a kitchen environment. You know, this is a fair few years ago now. That was a little bit toxic, I think you could call it. I think that the exact chef of where I took on my first role maybe had some questions could be asked around the way that he presented himself on a daily basis. And, you know, it's that typical old school way which very cloud kitchens don't operate like this anymore. But, you know, the language, the pots and pans being launched at you left, right and center on a bad day. Yeah, yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:31:44]:
The general kind of borderline bullying that happened and I moved into a totally different environment and it was like, wow, now I can thrive.

Phil [00:31:50]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:31:51]:
Because I'm allowed to ask questions and, you know, almost encouraged to ask questions because the chef wants me to get things right. And then suddenly it's. You're not just being asked questions, you're saying, oh, Chef, can I do that for you? Yeah, Great. Can I go and sort the dry stores? Oh, yeah. Great. And then he sees something in you that says, actually this guy just gets on with things. So I can trust him to plates and desserts. And from, you know, it kind of, it naturally snowballs from there.

Linden Beattie [00:32:10]:
You get trusted to do desserts to. You could do the starters. So now you're doing the starters and the desserts and we could train you up to do lunch. You can cook breakfast now. And then all of a sudden you're working a lot of hours in the kitchen being trusted, which is a great feeling at 16, 17 years old. Being trusted with a section, probably not that big a deal, but to a 16, 17 year old it is. And all of those things help spiral and grow your confidence. And then suddenly you're asked to work front of us and you think, yeah, I can do that.

Linden Beattie [00:32:36]:
I'm happy to give that a go also, because I'm in an environment where I know if I get it wrong, okay, they're not going to be happy if I get it wrong, but I'm not going to have a saucepan thrown at me.

Phil [00:32:44]:
Yeah, yeah. Fairly key point.

Linden Beattie [00:32:47]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:32:47]:
Nobody wants a saucepan thrown at me.

Linden Beattie [00:32:48]:
Not when they're hot. No.

Phil [00:32:49]:
No. Well, at any stage. I mean, they're pretty solid things, don't they? But, yeah. I suppose it also highlights something that again, has come up on the show many, many times is how you are lucky or not, depending on your first second experience of the industry can be definitely. You have that experience in a sort of fairly toxic environment and then you move into another environment that is the same. Maybe you're having a conversation with yourself to say, is this really for me?

Linden Beattie [00:33:13]:
Totally.

Phil [00:33:14]:
And it kind of highlights to me, certainly, and hopefully to anybody else that's kind of listening to this who's in a leadership position. Is that the responsibility that we have to ensure that we're creating an environment where people want to be like, that's. That surely has to be kind of rule number one. If they're not wanting to be there, then we're always going to be having trouble finding people to fill the jobs that we have.

Linden Beattie [00:33:39]:
Absolutely. Of course we are. And what better way than to develop your own talent that you already have in house?

Phil [00:33:45]:
Yeah, totally.

Linden Beattie [00:33:46]:
And even, you know, from my own experience, I still remember the conversation 20 years ago with the owner that said to me, look, there's a. If you change your mind, there's a job here for you.

Phil [00:33:54]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:33:55]:
And to him, that was a. That took 30 seconds of his day, actually, as it turned out, I would argue he might say different, but I'd argue it was a good 30 seconds. A good use of his 30 seconds, because he kept me there till I was 23, 22, 23. So he kept an employee for an extra four years than I'd intended being there. But he also gave me maybe the confidence, I'm not sure, but the reassurance of knowing that, okay, I can change my mind, I've got a job, I've got stability. And maybe that was enough to make me stay in hospitality. It was certainly a part of it. It played a role.

Phil [00:34:24]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Linden Beattie [00:34:26]:
Which is huge.

Phil [00:34:27]:
Totally, totally. I also made a note as we were going through your story about. I don't know why, because this happens to everybody, but in my. In my brain, as I was listening to you go through your kind of the process of you stepping up, those very clear moments where you stepped up from one role into another role, that role gives you more exposure to other things. Then again, FB Manager to DGM and then DGM to gm, where we are now. I suppose the key question for me around that is then, how do you manage the stepping up process? Because it's. I suppose everybody attacks this in a very different way, but it's working for you, clearly. But how do you.

Phil [00:35:10]:
How do you ensure that you have the tools to kind of cope with the step up?

Linden Beattie [00:35:15]:
I think you change your style a lot. So in my younger years, with less experience, I probably just worked every hour I could to make sure that I managed every situation I could.

Phil [00:35:26]:
Yep.

Linden Beattie [00:35:26]:
So you kind of manage it firsthand to the best of your ability. The more I can give you an example. When I took on a role at Cambridge, we had quite a few challenges in terms of certain processes and procedures and drinks after shift, drinks during shift and all sorts going on. So I took the decision that actually the best option was if I move in. So I moved into the hotel, stayed in room six, which is the single room, for about two months and almost stopped anyone allowing anyone to make a decision because every time they did there was a problem that would occur from it.

Phil [00:35:57]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:35:58]:
And unfortunately there was a cultural issue there, so several team members actually had to go through HR processes because, you know, there was drinks going missing. And anyway, all sorts. I won't go massively into it.

Phil [00:36:09]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:36:09]:
Two months down the line I move out thinking, great, we've done away with lots of the problem people. Sorry to put it like that, but that's kind of how it felt.

Phil [00:36:17]:
Yep.

Linden Beattie [00:36:18]:
First day off, probably in A couple of months. Phone doesn't stop ringing. Why not? Because I've not allowed anyone to make a decision and I've been there all hours of the day and suddenly I'm not. And people are saying, well, what do you want me to do with this? How do I do that? So there was a bit of a learning curve in that. I think the more experience you get, the more confident you are in saying, I'm not going to handle everything. We employ people to do a job. So if that's your role, then, you know, if you have a challenge within your area, how are you planning on tackling it? And it's not to say that we're not here to help or support. There's a lovely theory on problem solving, which is the 1:3:1 rule which is great for any manager to think of, which is, you've got one problem.

Linden Beattie [00:37:00]:
So I love it if my managers come to me and say, look, I've got this one problem. I'm going to give you three solutions to the problem and I'm going to give you the one solution. I think that we should go with Amazing as a gm, to go, you've given me the problem, you've given me three viable options to solve this problem and you've given me the one. And you give me the one that you recommend because you've done this work and research. Exactly. You don't need me.

Phil [00:37:21]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:37:22]:
Which is brilliant. So it's. It's fantastic. But back to your point around, how do you prepare for it? I think that the more senior you get, the better your communication becomes. The better you become at communicating with people, what your expectations are, and the more confident you are in being a bit vulnerable. We're talking about vulnerability earlier, weren't we? The more confident you are in being vulnerable and saying, well, I don't have all the answers, so, you know, actually, guys around me, you're gonna have to find some of the answers.

Phil [00:37:45]:
You actually might know more about this than I do.

Linden Beattie [00:37:48]:
All of my team know more about me and. Yeah. Especially within their own sectors.

Phil [00:37:51]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:37:51]:
I can't go into the massage and become a therapist. My spa manager can turn her hands to that, no problem at all. Yeah, I can't do that. She's brilliant at it. Great. Good for her. And, you know, across. I can't go in and run the kitchen like the exec chef.

Linden Beattie [00:38:03]:
He's far better at it than I am. Yeah, brilliant. That's why we want him on the team. So, yeah, I think to a degree, your communication improves you're more likely to pick up the phone to somebody that you've worked with or that you're connected with in some way and say, look, I'm having this issue. I don't suppose, you know, oh, we've had that same problem. Yeah. Or, you know, well, let me give you a bit of advice. And in your younger years, I think that that feels like a weakness where.

Linden Beattie [00:38:26]:
Or in your less experienced years, because you feel a bit threatened, saying to people, oh, I don't know how to do that. As you get more experienced, it's easier to say, I don't know the solution there. I'm gonna. But we'll either find it together or I'm gonna go and pick up the phone on my way home and speak to a friend or colleague and talk it through. And worst case, if nobody knows the answer, great, let's sit down. We can probably figure it out together. So I think being honest with people around what your expectations are of them within their role, and just being really clear, you don't have to solve every problem today. It may be a problem today, but it may not be one that you want to solve today.

Linden Beattie [00:38:58]:
It may, but it may actually be one that you say, this is on next month's list.

Phil [00:39:01]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. Yeah. Well, I also made a note. There's a couple of things. This is actually not from. Oh, no, it is actually. Yes.

Phil [00:39:08]:
Let's talk about your time in Cambridge when you create. I made a note of this because this, for me is kind of just a wonderful part of what I believe when business has done well, this is the sort of magic that can happen. And, you know, you created that not for profit business. It was, to me, I wrote down very simply two words. Well, it's actually one word twice. Win. Win.

Linden Beattie [00:39:26]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:39:27]:
Because one, you're kind of using this not for profit enterprise to raise awareness, to try and get, I suppose, more feet through the door as it works, what you can do. But on the other side, you're. You're creating, you know, money for local causes and things like that. And, you know, and that's to me, when. But that to me is what business should be like. This integrated thing within community that everybody, you know, It's. You've got 185 employees here. I'd imagine a lot of that comes from the local area.

Linden Beattie [00:39:58]:
Massive.

Phil [00:39:59]:
So, you know, it's important that businesses like this are integrated into their communities and a massive risk if you're not.

Linden Beattie [00:40:06]:
I'd say definitely you can play a huge role. You can get great support from your community. To your point, on the Cambridge rule, which is the brainchild of Tony Murdoch, who was the GM when I was in Cambridge, it was exactly that. But isn't it nice that owners say, look, we want you to do something with the land, we don't really mind what, but we'd like it if you can raise the profile of the property in some way. And you say, you know Tony's concept, but great, I've got this idea, this is what I want to do. It's probably not going to make us any money, but it'll raise the profile, which in turn will make money for us. And I can relate a little bit down hall, year one, we didn't have enough team members to do anything. So whenever anybody came to me with a new idea, it was like, that's great, write it down.

Linden Beattie [00:40:47]:
We're talking six, nine, 12 months. Yeah, it's on the long term list, it's not on the Today list. And year two came around, or I'd sort of come into the point where I'd done maybe nine months here. And we were looking at what events, what would we do throughout the summer? And we looked at spending 10, 15, 20 grand on PR to raise the profile of the property and with the management team, I said, well, how about rather than doing some great big PR campaign, which is very challenging to measure, what if we just put music events on alternate Friday nights? We've got a terrace that can seat 150 people comfortably. And if we just put music events on low key alternate Friday nights, we spend half the PR budget on acts that we'll perform. We open it up to the local community, they come in, they book a table, there's no cost to them, they eat and drink as much or as little as they want. And all we ask them to pay for is what they eat or drink. If they want to come in and have a coffee and that coffee lasts them for four hours, no problem at all.

Linden Beattie [00:41:40]:
So we set about to do that. We put on some outdoor cinema events, we did some jazz brunches and we did some jazz afternoon teas. And we said if we got to 50 people on average, if we could get to 50 people a day, that would be brilliant because it would cover the costs, make a couple of quid, but nothing significant. But we'd show the local community we're open for business and probably off of there. I can't tell you what business we'll pick up, but I know we'll pick some up. It may be a Christening. It may be a wedding, it may just be some people come in for lunch.

Phil [00:42:08]:
50Th birthday party.

Linden Beattie [00:42:09]:
50Th birthday party, Phil. And all of a sudden we served nearly 4,000 people that came to these events throughout a few months across the summer, we showed local people we were open, we got people talking about the place, spreading word of mouth. Suddenly we got the PR coverage that we'd have probably paid 15, 20 grand for anyway, because it came by default with down hall launches. It's life from the lawn concept. And what better way to spend your budget than actually it be organic? The PR paid for itself. We were able to offer our hours to the team members that we'd taken on because of course, we'd gone on a recruitment campaign so important that for me, as the gm, that we're able to offer people the hours.

Phil [00:42:49]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:42:49]:
No sense in having 185 employees, but no hours for them. That's no good to anybody. And we made some money doing it, but it was all just through doing the right thing.

Phil [00:42:58]:
And the community are kind of reinvigorated by you.

Linden Beattie [00:43:01]:
Massively. Yeah, I think so. I think it's been really key. And we wouldn't have 150 people coming on Friday nights if it wasn't something that was being embraced.

Phil [00:43:09]:
Yeah, totally, totally. I want to explore stories.

Linden Beattie [00:43:13]:
Sure.

Phil [00:43:14]:
There was, because there was. There was a story that you wrote down in your notes around an owner throwing out some guests.

Linden Beattie [00:43:22]:
Oh, yeah.

Phil [00:43:23]:
Because this is the thing, right. There's so many. There's this unwritten law around hospitality. Right. You can't name names and things like that. You can. You can name situations.

Linden Beattie [00:43:31]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Phil [00:43:32]:
That have happened. And there's a. You don't even have to work in this industry for that long to. Everybody will have a guest shenanigan story. Right. Of some description, at least one, probably. But this one intrigued me because I've not had this one before. I've not had people.

Phil [00:43:46]:
Yeah, well, I'm not going to say anything. As Graham Norton would say, off you go with your story.

Linden Beattie [00:43:50]:
So many years ago. So this is when I worked in a fairly small boutique hotel in North Wales. So owner was at the time still the operator. And he had a cracking sense of humor and he's the nicest person in the world, but if people are taking advantage of him, then he really isn't. And actually he'll go out of his way to be difficult. So if you show him loyalty. Brilliant.

Phil [00:44:08]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:44:08]:
And we had a quack.

Phil [00:44:09]:
I like that.

Linden Beattie [00:44:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, equally, if you're difficult with him, then. You know, he's the kind of person that would spend a million quid to win a fiver.

Phil [00:44:18]:
Okay, right.

Linden Beattie [00:44:19]:
If you wronged him, don't get on.

Phil [00:44:20]:
The wrong side of him then.

Linden Beattie [00:44:21]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. If he's got a point to prove, then he's a bugger. So we had a couple check in, elderly couple. It was very clear from the moment they arrived that they were not going to be happy with anything and they started complaining. Anyway, the check in was done and he just happened to be assisting them with luggage up to their room. So he took them up the staircase, elderly couple, up they go to their room. He got to their room, put the suitcases down, was about to open the room. Shows how long ago it was.

Linden Beattie [00:44:42]:
It was an actual key.

Phil [00:44:43]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:44:44]:
Put the key back in his pocket, carried on walking across the landing. They followed him. He came back down the staircase at the opposite end of the building, walked straight past reception, where of course, we were all looking a little confused because we were all waiting at reception thinking, oh, Martin's going to have some in all name names. Martin's gonna have something to say about these guests in a moment. He showed them straight out the front door and his words to them were, no, thank you, I've changed my mind. Put their suitcases outside the front door and told them to f off.

Phil [00:45:07]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:45:08]:
And that was the end of them. And off they went. And I thought, you know, in a way, I think it's quite a nice story because it was very clear they weren't going to enjoy themselves regardless of what we did.

Phil [00:45:16]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:45:17]:
And I do believe in the customer. The customer is always the customer. The customer is not always right.

Phil [00:45:21]:
Very good. Yes. Which I think is critical difference.

Linden Beattie [00:45:25]:
Huge. But of course, back then it was. Lots of people lived on. Well, the customer's always right. I don't agree with that, actually. The customer is always the customer, I think, is more accurate. But for the sake of, you know, back then, I don't know, 150 quid or something for the night, he wasn't prepared to let the team go through it.

Phil [00:45:39]:
Yeah, well, that's the byproduct.

Linden Beattie [00:45:41]:
Right. Yeah.

Phil [00:45:41]:
They're not enjoying themselves.

Linden Beattie [00:45:42]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:45:43]:
And they're gonna. They're gonna impart that unenjoyability, if that's even a word, it's great. Onto everyone else.

Linden Beattie [00:45:50]:
Absolutely. And he was brilliant. You know, somebody whistled it and once, because they wanted service, and he walked around the whole restaurant looking underneath every single tablecloth and then loudly claimed, oh, I'm sorry, I thought there was a dog in here and walked off and told everyone to ignore them for the rest of the evening. So he was sort of. He set this great example around really good customer. I mean, I know the examples I've given are terrible, but he set the example around really good hospitable customer service, in fact, by sort of trade and experience. He was actually a salesperson, which shows in the way he is. And he's a lovely, warm chap.

Linden Beattie [00:46:17]:
But equally, he was always quite strong in saying, I'm not prepared for people, my team or myself to be treated inappropriately. So if you're going to be rude to us, we'll just ignore you.

Phil [00:46:27]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:46:27]:
Equally, if we've got something wrong, we'll say sorry, we can rectify anything that we've got wrong. There's still a way that you can address it with us.

Phil [00:46:33]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the thing I never understand about. I think I feel like maybe some people are just geared up to enjoy being unhappy sometimes that an oxymoron. But. And you know, I don't think I've spoken about this on the podcast, but I have a deep seated belief that there is this. You know, you have to kind of almost be the ideal guest if you're out and about as well, because you're still surrounded by humans.

Linden Beattie [00:46:58]:
Yes.

Phil [00:46:58]:
And yes, stuff is going to go wrong around you and maybe it impacts your experience, but then there's a way to deliver that to somebody. And I've definitely found out over the years that actually by being kind about the stuff that's gone wrong and delivering it in a way that's very level and, you know, stuff happens, but we're not happy about it.

Linden Beattie [00:47:18]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:47:18]:
Then you get way more back.

Linden Beattie [00:47:20]:
Absolutely.

Phil [00:47:20]:
Way more back.

Linden Beattie [00:47:21]:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think people are always more keen to work with you.

Phil [00:47:25]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:47:25]:
Because they can, you know, if actually what you are unhappy with is something that you are just in being unhappy with, then most people will recognize that your complaint is justified. You don't need to come down swearing and shouting about it. Actually saying to somebody, could I have a quick word with the manager when they've got a moment? And I'll just go and sit in a quiet corner, tells them straight away that actually you're going to do it in a nice manner, probably. And also means that you'll be heard in and you're not putting them in a confrontational situation where you're stood at a desk shouting at them in front of their other guests. They're far more likely to Give you more. Of course they are. And you're going to be the sort of customer that they're going to want back.

Phil [00:47:59]:
Yeah. I will never, ever forget. So one moment. And I think in my whole life, I remember walking into a hotel and the room that we were given was not sold as seen. I would suggest that the view that you'll have nowhere near and all of that kind of stuff. And I was actually quite willing to let it slide, but my wife was less inclined for that. But she said, well, you have to be the one to go and complain because she'll just lose her mind and then we'll get chucked out of the hotel.

Linden Beattie [00:48:25]:
We'll have a room with a view, but we'll be sleeping on a beach.

Phil [00:48:28]:
Yeah, indeed. And I just remember going down and saying, here's the picture of what we were expecting. Here's the picture I've just taken on my phone of what we actually have. They don't really align. We're not especially happy about it, but, you know, anything you can do to help us, that would be great. And the lady said, leave it with me. If you just go and have a seat over there and I'll get you a cocktail or something like that while I go and see what we can do, because she agreed. And we sat there waiting and we were like, what do you think is going to happen? I don't know.

Phil [00:48:58]:
They came over and said, I'm really sorry. And you hear that word and you're like, well, we're stuck in the room. Then said, we can't do anything about it tonight because we're fully booked. There's no room to move you to. But as of tomorrow, the Presidential suite is available and we'll move you in there for the rest of your holiday.

Linden Beattie [00:49:13]:
Wow.

Phil [00:49:14]:
And we were like, okay, yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:49:17]:
And are you charging me? Amazing.

Phil [00:49:20]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:49:20]:
And great service recovery.

Phil [00:49:22]:
Totally, totally, totally changed the whole perspective on that. We had our own problem.

Linden Beattie [00:49:28]:
Would you go back?

Phil [00:49:29]:
Of course, of course. But not just because of that.

Linden Beattie [00:49:33]:
No, no, no, of course.

Phil [00:49:34]:
But it was the willingness and the fact that we felt that we were actually engaging with each other on the problem rather than us dictating the problem to them and vice versa. Then you could also be in a situation whereby somebody would give you a really cold response and say, well, that's tough.

Linden Beattie [00:49:49]:
Tough.

Phil [00:49:49]:
Yeah. And so I think the key thing this is, you've already mentioned communication being a massively important part. Like, it's so important in every aspect of hospitality, Right. From guest to establishment, as well as the Other way around.

Linden Beattie [00:50:03]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's all we ask of anybody here, you know, if their experience hasn't been good, then we want to make it better and we want to rectify it. Just speak to us like we're humans and, you know, we'll find a solution. Yeah, I'm sure we will.

Phil [00:50:16]:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm now conscious of time. It's like 10pm now, just really, I mean, I want to talk to you about this year because, I mean, I've kind of, like, teased at the beginning that, you know, there's a whole reason why I reached out to you in the first place. Notwithstanding that I should have done this a long time ago, but is that I was at the AA Awards this year.

Linden Beattie [00:50:35]:
Yes.

Phil [00:50:35]:
For my first experience of that.

Linden Beattie [00:50:37]:
Okay.

Phil [00:50:37]:
Yep. Never been before. We had Simon Nunford on as a guest and very kindly said, come along. And I was great to experience it. And wow, what a night that was. Great night that was. And there was some awards got handed that evening.

Linden Beattie [00:50:53]:
It was.

Phil [00:50:54]:
What happened?

Linden Beattie [00:50:55]:
Well, we were delighted to be honored, I suppose, with the AA Hotel of the Year for England.

Phil [00:50:59]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:51:00]:
Which is a phenomenal achievement. Unbelievable.

Phil [00:51:02]:
I mean. I don't mean unbelievable, isn't it? Having seen the place, it's unbelievable.

Linden Beattie [00:51:06]:
I got it wrong. They've made a mistake.

Phil [00:51:08]:
But I mean, like, I don't know how many hotels there are.

Linden Beattie [00:51:12]:
Lots.

Phil [00:51:12]:
Yeah. But like, to come out on top of, you know what I would imagine is a massively competitive award.

Linden Beattie [00:51:19]:
Yes.

Phil [00:51:19]:
As well.

Linden Beattie [00:51:20]:
And it's a lovely one because several awards in our industry, like many industries, you have to enter.

Phil [00:51:26]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:51:27]:
So you may enter an award and think, well, maybe we'll get shortlisted or, you know, probably won't even get shortlisted. But if you don't know, you know, if you don't try, you'll never know. With the Hotel of the Year, there's no entry process. You just get a call to say, congratulations. You do hear in advance of the awards. Right. It's obviously very strictly embargoed. You hear slightly in advance and you just get a call to say, congratulations, you've been awarded with the AA Hotel of the Year.

Linden Beattie [00:51:52]:
And you. Sorry, what? Down hall? Yeah. So the ND called me and said, I've just heard from, actually from Simon and it was a bad line. He said, we've been awarded to the AA Hotel. And I was like, sorry, come again?

Phil [00:52:05]:
You've been awarded.

Linden Beattie [00:52:06]:
Yeah. Fleming's. Sorry, hang on, you said. Did say down hall, not Fleming. And I said, AA Hotel of the Year. Yeah. AA Hotel of the Year for England and yeah, what a moment. It was absolutely delighted as you can imagine.

Linden Beattie [00:52:18]:
Thrilled for the team because they have sunk their heart and soul into this place over the last couple of years. The entire team, in fairness the 185, but in particular have to give a huge shout out to the management team that their assistant managers and supervisors because they're the ones that set the pace every day and deal with all the situations that happen after the core team have gone home. So I think it was huge but deserved recognition for that team, recognition for the owners and our MD with their vision for the place and the investment which is ongoing incidentally, but the investment that they've put into the place over the last few years. Plenty of other owners have not been able to invest with the obvious Covid happening. They've looked past that where we have invested. They've taken a very long term view and you could almost argue overinvested. You know, they don't cut corners, they do things to a very good standard and want the finish to be to a very good standard. Hopefully you'll agree after our two hour tour that I gave you earlier.

Phil [00:53:13]:
Yeah, without question. Without question. Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:53:15]:
So we were, yeah, we were absolutely thrilled and of course it's really helping our business as well. You know, we've definitely seen an uptake in inquiries from leisure guests, but also an uptake in inquiries from events.

Phil [00:53:27]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:53:27]:
Where people want to place events. Agents that want to book more events at down hall because it's the AA's Hotel of the Year. Why wouldn't you?

Phil [00:53:34]:
Yeah. Do you know what that it's, it's wonderful on so many levels notwithstanding, to win the award is amazing in any case. But actually, as you say, you don't. Nobody nominates you for this. You don't fill out an application form. Somebody at some point is within the AA setup has walked into this hotel and gone, well, they've accredited you with whatever you get credited for but then also gone to the table with, you know, these guys have got to be in with a shout for Hotel of the Year.

Linden Beattie [00:54:02]:
Yeah.

Phil [00:54:03]:
And based around everything that you were saying around as well, the journey that just in your time here alone, the challenges you've had to face in that time and overcome and you know, as I think I alluded to right at the beginning of this, like the evolution of the property and these pillars that you highlighted earlier on around, you get those five things right and the profit will take care of itself, but also in this case the marketing will take care of itself, because now somebody else is telling you, actually, the work you're doing here is bang on, you're moving in exactly the right direction.

Linden Beattie [00:54:38]:
It's very humbling, I have to say, and I don't quite have the words to say how grateful we are or how much it means to us as a team, because for us, it's huge and to your point, just not something that you have any idea is coming your way. So, yeah, it's very reassuring. I think it gives everybody reassurance from the team to the owners, and they've probably had their moments where they think I'm crazy. But I think hopefully it adds some credibility to what we've done here as a team and we have achieved in two and a half years, I think we've achieved an awful lot in terms of the repositioning project, the refurbishments that have been carried out, the building of the team, the customer service that we now have. Don't get me wrong, we have a long way to go. We're very much continuing on that journey and we've got lots more that we would like to do and exciting plans as well for the estate. But in two and a half years, I think I can look back and think, okay, we've done okay.

Phil [00:55:27]:
Yeah, yeah, you've done okay.

Linden Beattie [00:55:29]:
Yeah, yeah.

Phil [00:55:29]:
But we were talking just as I arrived earlier on as well. Like, even the grand hall, where, you know, serve afternoon tea the last time I was here, it looks like almost a completely different room. So I think this is the key thing with any business, I guess. But evolution is so massively important, isn't it? You cannot rest on what you have.

Linden Beattie [00:55:52]:
Definitely not.

Phil [00:55:53]:
And it sounds like you have an owner who gets that and that makes a big, big difference.

Linden Beattie [00:55:58]:
Of course, it makes a huge difference. It makes my life so much easier, as opposed to going to the owner and kind of trying to persuade and strong arm and presentation after presentation around ROI and what we need to do, he does get it doesn't mean there doesn't need to be a commercial element. And for my own benefit, there should be a commercial reason for doing anything, because ultimately most businesses are investment vehicles and should be treated as such. But we're very fortunate that the owner is the kind of person, if we were doing a refurbishment and I said, look, I know we're supposed to be spending 100,000 pound on this, but for 10,000 more, I think we could. It will stand the test of time. It will give the guests a much better experience. It'd be much more beneficial for the team. He'd go spend the 10,000.

Phil [00:56:37]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:56:38]:
Nine times out of 10, probably 9.9 times out of 10, he would say spend the extra 10,000 as long as it makes logical sense. And there's a fairly sound business case for it. The other benefit is it means that I don't have to. If I want to do something or put something to the owners for investment, I don't have to spend four weeks coming up with strategies and plans and ROIs. Of course, there are ROIs for the bigger investments, but if you want to spend a few thousand pound, it doesn't need some great big roi. It's a conversation often just over the telephone.

Phil [00:57:05]:
Right.

Linden Beattie [00:57:05]:
Which is great. And normally by the end of the conversation, it's a yes or a no.

Phil [00:57:08]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:57:09]:
So just to your point earlier, where you said about interview and moving quickly. They do. They do move quickly.

Phil [00:57:14]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:57:14]:
And they're prepared for us to move quickly.

Phil [00:57:15]:
Yeah.

Linden Beattie [00:57:16]:
But they uphold their end of the bargain as well, which is. Which is great.

Phil [00:57:19]:
Yeah, absolutely. And it's just wonderful. I'm kind of. I'm also reinvigorated by down hall, having come here today and seen the direction of travel. You've obviously speaking before we turn the microphone on, about some potential future projects within the property as well. I don't know if you can talk about them or.

Linden Beattie [00:57:37]:
Well, I mean, I think that the key for us is we are an estate and I think it's easy to forget that we have 110 acres. We're really trying to lean into that edge. So over the last couple of years, we now distil our own gin. We want to give people. I just rewind on that slightly if I can. We want to give people an experience of downhaul in its truest sense. And if we can't give them an experience of downhaul from a taste point of view, we want to give them a taste of the local area, Essex, Hertfordshire, then East Anglia, before we look further afield. So I talk you through a couple of things that we've done just to try and enhance that experience and then where we're going with it.

Linden Beattie [00:58:09]:
We now distil our own gin from botanicals that are grown on the land. We distil our own vodka from Douglas fir trees which grow on the land within 110 acres. We have our own bees, we now have our own honey, we have our own tea. Doesn't grow on the land, obviously, but it handpicked exclusively about a few years. Absolutely. The way the climate's going, we might be able to We've extended our one acre kitchen garden to a two acre kitchen garden. So lots of produce now coming through that we've not been able to grow previously because we've not had the space and we've invested an awful lot into that. We've got a woodland management plan in place, so we have a five year management plan so we know exactly where we want the woodlands to be in five years and how we want them to look.

Linden Beattie [00:58:46]:
We've had a bit of Ash die back on the estate, so we've got a big replanting plan going on. Over the course of this winter, we are putting in a dining concept down in the kitchen garden. So we'll be inviting guests to come down for cocktail making masterclass using downhole gin, downhole vodka canape making, which they'll do themselves using produce that's grown in the grounds and then a dining experience where chef will cook them a feast on open fire pits. Just leaning into that demand for experiential and that'll give us a fourth dining space at that point, which is really, really key to us. And I'm very, very early days at this moment in time, but what we'd like to do is to lean into the land more, be that in terms of some kind of experiential woodland spa. It's very early days. So, yeah, I won't say too much more, but come back in a year's time and I'll be able to tell you all about it.

Phil [00:59:33]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, wow. It's just, it's fabulous and I've been incredibly grateful to get time with you today on and off microphone. You've been very, very kind with your time. It's just wonderful to see this business that's been under my nose all of this time just being transformed and moving in such a wonderfully positive direction. To me, it seems like you're very comfortable in your own skin here as well. I don't use the words comfortable in the way that you're, I'm sure, comfortable, but it feels like you're exactly where you need to be right now.

Linden Beattie [01:00:04]:
Thank you very much, you're very kind.

Phil [01:00:06]:
My absolute pleasure, Linden, thank you very much for your time and wish you all the very best with the next phase of Downhall's journey.

Linden Beattie [01:00:13]:
Thanks ever so much, Phil. Come back soon.

Phil [01:00:15]:
I'll be here tomorrow. Cheers.