#217 - Hospitality Meets Rizwan Khan - Crisis, Comedy & Career Pivots

00:01.52
Phil Street
And a huge hospitality meets welcome to Rizwan Khan.

00:06.08
Rizwan
Hi Phil, how are doing today? Yeah, amazing as

00:07.39
Phil Street
I'm all right. how are you doing?

00:10.99
Phil Street
Good, good, good. far that's like That's a good positive start to the show. I like i like that. I mean, and and actually, you know, here we are sitting in the middle of February. The sun is shining. I love crisp winter's day like this.

00:23.24
Phil Street
And yeah, a lot to be hopeful for. Yeah.

00:26.61
Rizwan
indeed, indeed. Life is amazing, life is beautiful. We just keep going.

00:29.64
Phil Street
yeah Totally, totally. Actually, you know what? I made a a note of a comment that you put in the the form that you very kindly filled out, which I thought absolutely merits regaling into the the big wide world, which is that life isn't something that can be defined or explained.

00:47.64
Phil Street
I was like, I love that. That's very philosophical, which is right up my alley and the in the first place. um But it's true. you know You know, when you try to make sense of it, that's that's where you get bogged down, right? But if you just kind of go with the flow of what's coming your way and and accept that some of it's going to be up, some of it's going to be down, then it's just a freer place to be.

01:10.08
Rizwan
It's just, as I've said, you know, it cannot be explained. You can't waste time understanding it. By the time you sit down to understand it, think you're out of time. so I think every single moment you need to appreciate what you have.

01:23.94
Rizwan
ah You know, if you see with the current situation of the world, if you have a roof under your head, you know, you have food in your table, you have your arms and limbs moving, i you know, if you have the freedom of speech and liberty to do what you can, I think you're richer than 90% of the world.

01:39.28
Rizwan
I think we all have to be grateful for the opportunities we get.

01:43.35
Phil Street
Very good. Very good. Well, you can come again. This is a very positive way to start my yeah my Wednesday. um Great. Well, i just tell the world where you're at. What are you doing?

01:55.40
Rizwan
So, um well, I work at a restaurant called Junsei. I'm the general manager there. I've been there since the opening. We've been almost four years now.

02:06.82
Rizwan
um We are a type of Japanese cuisine that specializes in yakitori or yakitoria. Yakitori basically means grill bird. the Yaki means grill. Tori means bird.

02:18.51
Rizwan
And we specialize in chicken. So we get our chicken from Suffolk and we break it down into 23 different parts and we make screws out of almost everything.

02:29.37
Rizwan
And we take the bone, we make a sauce out of it called atare, which is like the mother sauce of yakitori. Everything is done on the robata, which is a Japanese grill. And we work with white bincha, which is a bincha-danshan grill.

02:41.85
Rizwan
um Yeah, everything is very sustainable about the cuisine. And we are one of the first authentic yakitoria in London because ah they haven't been quite lot of yakitoria in the past few years. um So when we started, we were the first. And obviously now London is seeing few more yakitoria scenes, which is great because there's more, I think there's more to Japanese cuisine than shushi and sashimi and omakases and izakaya.

03:09.20
Rizwan
So this has been another diverse, diversity part of cuisine to the Japanese world.

03:15.72
Phil Street
Yeah, and you're talking of my language when it comes to, I mean, anything Japanese from a food perspective is right ah once again, right up my alley. and Yeah, and and you've been there for for quite a while now, I think, a good ah good few years.

03:29.81
Rizwan
yeah Four years to be honest, it's going to be four in May. um It's my first venture as opening restaurant, opening jam. Yeah, time flies when you enjoy it, you know, they say.

03:40.65
Rizwan
Yeah, can't complain. Everything's been going pretty good. ah We have grown into an international side as well because we opened one in Jakarta last year. Dappled the size, what we do. It's been pretty good.

03:55.89
Rizwan
eat to do

03:57.65
Phil Street
Fun games. Were you involved in the Jakarta opening as well?

04:01.62
Rizwan
Not to an extent because ah I was going through, would I say, i was my wife was pregnant, so I was going through the bits and pieces because <unk> it's an amazing journey.

04:11.02
Phil Street
Fatherhood. Going through fatherhood. Yes.

04:15.95
Rizwan
But yeah, i think ah I was involved in training the staff because we had one of our assistants who went in to be the GM of Jakarta. um But yeah, I did few interviews with a lot of people over Zoom calls.

04:28.11
Rizwan
I was... i was I'm required to go there, but I kind of build out with the current situations. But yeah, trying to go back soon ah to see how the owners have set it up.

04:40.14
Rizwan
ah But yeah, it looks pretty damn good, to be honest.

04:43.72
Phil Street
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:43.83
Rizwan
Can't complain. Yeah.

04:44.91
Phil Street
yeah well And you but it definitely played your part in in if you're doing ah doing those things. But um in any case, we'll talk a little bit more about Jansai later. um First of all, I want to take you back because looking at your your background, it does look like you but you didn't start in hospitality. You've kind of found hospitality. Is that is that a fair way to put it?

05:07.98
Rizwan
Yeah, you can't tell me like that. Well, my parents come from a hospitality background, so it's ah fair to say that hospitality runs in the blood. um My mom was a telephone operator. My dad's a chef. So it's been you know i'd been surrounded by ah amazing motivation. you know The love for the industry comes from the family.

05:31.37
Rizwan
um ah To be honest, I didn't want it to be part of hospitality when I started. after When I was doing my sixth form, I was very much into computer science. I wanted to do system analysts and I wanted to design systems as a system architect.

05:45.78
Rizwan
But ah due to current financial situations, i couldn't take part in universities. So one of my biggest mentors, Shep Rubek Singh, who's a good friend of my dad,

05:57.37
Rizwan
um convinced my dad saying, why don't you send send the boy in to my restaurant and know for a gap year, which sounded as a backup plan became the primary source.

06:04.96
Phil Street
Right?

06:09.51
Rizwan
It always starts like that. So I started as a receptionist in the beautiful ah cinnamon club, which is a modern Indian restaurant in the heart of Westminster in the great two listed building, the old Westminster library.

06:24.66
Rizwan
So there was a lot of history in that building. It was an amazing journey because I started ah working the age transitioning from 17 to 18. And so as a young, you know, young theory boy, it was amazing to just work those long hours, see everything, how things were, everything looked very positive.

06:45.48
Rizwan
And I think it was amazing. I got into a training assistant program, which they have in Cinnamon Collection. which, you know it's 24 to 36 months program where you go through different parts of the restaurant industry and different sites as well, where you learn from reception to bar to sommelier to, you know, flow management to P&Ls, you know, it goes through all the inside depths of you, how you can be a trainee, from trainee to an assistant manager.

07:16.29
Rizwan
And yeah, so it was good three years in the cinnamon collection. um I was quite looked after by one of my group GM called Jean-Luc Jekyll, who I'm still in touch. He is like one of the mentors of my front of house, which I always look up to and always call him for advices.

07:36.59
Rizwan
But yeah, I think that after I've got a beautiful opportunity by Shepakal Kocha to be part of Kanishka, which was a restaurant in Mayfair, which I had the opportunity to be part of the opening team.

07:49.50
Rizwan
I did a year and a half there as a GM. And at that time, I was 21 years old. So as a 21-year-old, you're becoming a general manager.

07:55.41
Phil Street
Wow.

07:59.09
Rizwan
It is quite a lot of things on your shoulders.

08:01.73
Phil Street
No doubt.

08:02.14
Rizwan
But think I can fairly say I was the youngest GM in Mayfair at that moment.

08:02.21
Phil Street
Yeah.

08:06.92
Rizwan
But yeah, it was amazing. I'm quite grateful for Chef to you know put his trust on my shoulders to run a 100-cover restaurant. cover restaurant ah We had two floors. We had an amazing team. and yeah But there was ups and downs you know because you're young. you know It's quite hard to make your voice through when you're surrounded by people that have more experience than you.

08:29.74
Rizwan
And it's not a negative thing because you know if you have more experience, it makes sense because you're young. You're still learning.

08:35.57
Phil Street
Yeah.

08:36.07
Rizwan
And then we all know something very brutal happened after 2020, called COVID.

08:42.20
Phil Street
Oh, really? What was that?

08:42.47
Rizwan
So, you know, yeah it was I think it was quite a century back, isn't it?

08:43.22
Phil Street
Yeah, yeah. I don't remember that. but

08:46.61
Rizwan
yeah

08:46.87
Phil Street
Yeah, indeed.

08:47.62
Rizwan
but Yeah. But it damaged that industry. But yeah, um COVID it happened. I be you know decided to stay back. I was eight months jobless.

08:59.48
Rizwan
During that time, I wanted to go back to IT. I was like, you know, hospitality is not for me.

09:03.09
Phil Street
Really?

09:03.23
Rizwan
um

09:03.37
Phil Street
is that right?

09:03.95
Rizwan
Yeah, know yeah, it's it's right because, you know, you know you're all demotivated with everything going around.

09:04.25
Phil Street
Right, right?

09:08.76
Rizwan
you know You don't have a certain thought of your career. You don't know what's happening.

09:13.16
Phil Street
Well, indeed,

09:13.46
Rizwan
I was 22 around, 23 around that time and I was like, maybe hospitality is not for me. Let me just go back to IT. So I did a few courses. I did, you know, the CompTIA plus courses from computer science kind of situation and,

09:28.02
Rizwan
During that time, I realized this is not for me. I want that physical touch of guest experience. I want to be involved in talking to people. I want to be on my feet. I want to, you know, like wow people with my charisma. I want to learn more things and food and beverage was something which was getting exciting as they passed by and to see our industry thriving after COVID was an amazing motivational, you know, ah graphic for me. So I was like,

09:57.77
Rizwan
I've done IT, you know, that's it. Now can't, you know, when I'm dying on my dead bed, I can't say, ah, I should have done IT because I've, you know witnessed studying it. So i was like, let me just do this checklist and let me go back to where my heart belongs.

10:12.36
Rizwan
So I was like, let's start COVID.

10:12.43
Phil Street
Yeah, yeah.

10:13.48
Rizwan
And then I had the beautiful opportunity of getting Jinsei and years down the lane, I'm still at Jinsei.

10:21.16
Phil Street
The rest is history.

10:21.42
Rizwan
Love it, quality. Yeah, that's the history. Yeah, pretty good.

10:25.23
Phil Street
Yeah, but do you know what? the the I think the great thing about that is is that you know that period, that 2020 period, where I mean ah i reckon 95% of the world's population in that moment was questioning their life choices you know around career paths, just because...

10:40.88
Rizwan
Thank

10:45.33
Phil Street
Nobody knew, right? that There were so many question marks in the world at that time as to what the future was going to look like. Is hospitality broken forever because of you know lockdowns, et cetera, et cetera?

10:56.90
Phil Street
And so, yeah, I think you it had to be a ah pretty philosophical time of people's lives around, okay, do I need to upskill myself in something else, which is what you chose to try? to try But sometimes...

11:11.05
Phil Street
you you kind of have to go through these things to understand that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side, but it can then remind you about all of the things that you love, which, you know, perhaps in the in the busyness of life, you can sometimes forget.

11:19.20
Rizwan
Thank you.

11:29.10
Phil Street
um And so i've had I've heard a version of your story so many, many times, and and not just on this podcast, but like just just generally, and not even just within hospitality,

11:40.79
Phil Street
around that moment whereby everybody's like okay I don't know if I've got a career future here so I need to go off and protect myself and do something else and but then realizing that that thing that they were doing all along was was the thing that that gave them joy

11:57.70
Rizwan
You have to see life as a second opportunity after COVID. um you know Life does give you a lot of opportunity. We're just too busy to see it. um And sometimes we miss it.

12:10.52
Rizwan
And it's for me, ah I felt, okay, this is round two. And we need to rise from our ashes.

12:15.86
Phil Street
yeah

12:17.88
Rizwan
And bless let's do it. you know and There's no stopping back now. Just keep moving forward.

12:23.49
Phil Street
And i love I love this as well, because that there's also this newfound love slash philosophy of viewers post-COVID also kind of, it seems like...

12:34.74
Phil Street
you were at this point just really switched on, like as in to the point whereby, and we'll come back to your time at Cinnamon because I want to explore this ah this fast rise of promotion and, you know being a GM at 21, I think is a really interesting thing um to to have that level of responsibility that early in your life.

12:55.99
Phil Street
But actually, you know, What I've seen in your journey, and actually ah you and I were introduced to each other, one through the IOH podcast, but two at the Gold Service Scholarship um in 2024. Now at that point, well actually, before we get into that, maybe maybe tell the world, what is the Gold Service Scholarship?

13:15.68
Rizwan
Thank you for asking this question. in Gold service scholarship, I don't think it is. It's one of the best competitions out there for the front of us professionals. um even if you're I think aged 21 and above and ah trying to exceed in your field or want to push yourself out of your comfort zone gold service scholarship is the way doing it the patron is the late queen and you know it's judged by some of the most recognized and most achieved front of us professionals um you know leading from the trustees from the

13:54.62
Rizwan
It's just like, it's a beautiful competition that goes through all different parts of hospitality, you know, segments. Like, it tests you on all your skills and the amount of opportunities you get after becoming not only the winning finalist but still being part of it is just amazing.

14:18.71
Rizwan
Like, for me, I find to be part of the Team Gold, which is like a part we made from the winning finals and the scholars over the years. The amount of guidance and the amount of help you can get from Team Gold is enlightening.

14:33.66
Rizwan
And the amount of ah opportunities I got after, like, you know, we went to trips to, like, your education trips, like Porto, where we saw how Port is made from Graham's. where We saw amazing hospitality from...

14:49.32
Rizwan
Anthony Symington and to you know stay there in the Douro Valley for two days was just hard. you know it's just My heart gets filled up with seeing all this nature and this beautiful hospitality they provide.

15:03.40
Phil Street
Yeah.

15:03.75
Rizwan
And then we get we we got a chance to go to Lausanne, to Ecole des Hotels, Lausanne, which is great like one of the most reputational in the Institute for Hospitality in the world.

15:16.92
Rizwan
I know the most famous as well. We had a diploma, which was a bespoke diploma on creating values in food and beverage. So again, we get to you know explore the city, you get to explore university again. you know You're back in the morning, just learning, studying, doing group works.

15:35.61
Rizwan
But this yeah these are just one of the opportunities that you get. But the lifetime guidance and you know you get your personality shine through these competitions. is something which, you know, it's amazing.

15:46.74
Rizwan
And Goal Service does that.

15:47.22
Phil Street
Yeah.

15:48.62
Rizwan
Goal Service is just not a competition. It's an experience. You don't go there to be successful. You go there to network. You go there to learn. You go there to experience. You go there to meet people. Because we all are from this beautiful world of hospitality and it's somewhere seems like a small world.

16:06.44
Rizwan
And, you know, if you're back in that, you know, small little area where you're conversing with others, as you're speaking with judges, you're speaking with all the amazing people in our hospitality, you get to learn and you know you learn new things every day. You can't say I know everything.

16:22.25
Phil Street
No, no.

16:22.30
Rizwan
you know And this this is what Gold Service Scholarship is about. It's due means to move the young people in the industry and they give their opportunity. If you have you know the determination and if you can push yourself, then this is it in a Gold Service Scholarship in a brief statement.

16:42.71
Phil Street
Yeah, and this is directly related to your philosophy of COVID being life's second chance and on the back of that. And and and what's the was there a specific moment you can remember whereby you went, right, okay, COVID's gone, survived it, we're still here.

17:01.29
Phil Street
ah i want to i really, really just want to get my head down and push myself as far as I can go. Was there ah was that a light bulb moment at any point?

17:11.44
Rizwan
I think I went through a lot of moments like that to be honest.

17:13.44
Phil Street
yeah

17:14.39
Rizwan
but But there was one specific moment when I had just got Jinsay. I looked at myself in the mirror. I had a massive beard. My hair was all over the place. And I looked myself into the mirror and i'm like, there was just a fire inside me burning. And I was like, you know, I've slept enough for the last eight months.

17:33.94
Rizwan
So I can't complain I'm tired.

17:35.51
Phil Street
slept enough for a lifetime probably yeah

17:35.97
Rizwan
um Yeah, I've rested enough for the last eight months, you know. um This is the time for me not to complain.

17:47.85
Rizwan
And I just looked myself like I need to see this as a second opportunity. And that way I think it's fair to say that is the time when I found myself in hospitality. And I was like, okay, it is what it is. Let's move on and let's do all the things that I could have done the last years that I missed and now if I can inspire others, if I can do it, I can inspire others, if I can represent myself and it can if I can represent a pool of people that have gone through something similar to what have done, I think I need, I can do that, you know, I can be that light to enlighten others, I could be that torch to

18:29.18
Rizwan
move the marathon forward and i keep saying this to everyone uh i've said this to you as well before like the hospitality is a never-ending marathon and uh our mentors have been running it and they find the suitable people to pass the torch and then we get the torch and then we have to find the suitable people to pass the torch forward so that hospitality just keeps you know uh just gets shared with everybody. And, you know, that's what the marathon is about.

18:58.40
Rizwan
And I think that was the time when I realized this is it. Let's do all these things. Let's do all the crazy things. Push myself, you know, like let's learn from ups and downs. If I fail, it is fine. I'll try again.

19:10.40
Rizwan
ah What's the worst can you do?

19:10.54
Phil Street
Love it.

19:11.92
Rizwan
You know, what's the worst will happen?

19:12.63
Phil Street
Yeah.

19:13.28
Rizwan
You try again. That's it.

19:14.78
Phil Street
Love it. Love it. Yeah. you know what? you You kind of made me realize as well. There was once upon a time there was a guy told me, you know, he was a a hotel GM and he told his philosophy was, is that ultimately he is just a custodian of this thing that will long outlive him.

19:31.15
Phil Street
And, um you know, and his job is to make sure that when he leaves there, it's just in a ah better position than how he found it.

19:39.83
Rizwan
Mm-hmm.

19:39.98
Phil Street
And I've kind of just done that little section that you were you' were talking about there. i've I've now realized that actually that is the same of the industry. You know, we're all just custodians of something within industry. And the biggest thing that we're all custodians of is its reputation.

19:55.44
Phil Street
You know, so... but We all kind of have to take this view that while I'm here and while I'm involved in this industry, I just want to make sure that when I leave it, I've done my bit to try and just make it a bit better.

20:09.92
Phil Street
And that can be a tiny thing. It could be youre a massive, grand thing. It doesn't matter. And but your journey excuse me with your journey, you've kind of you've had that look in the mirror moment where you've gone, right,

20:25.36
Phil Street
One, I kind of probably owe this to myself to, you know, push myself and see where I can actually take this. But two, I kind of, I feel like I owe it to hospitality as well to give the best of myself while I'm here.

20:37.79
Phil Street
um And I love that.

20:37.91
Rizwan
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

20:39.89
Phil Street
I love that. and And that's kind of been really prevalent in your journey to me around the fact that and ah you did the Gold Service Scholarship in 2021. And you got to the semi-final stage, which in itself is no mean feat for a lot of people. I think that would probably be, you know what?

20:57.17
Phil Street
I have achieved and that's been great. But for you, that wasn't enough. So what was going through your head there in terms of, um ah you know, I've already done something quite, quite good here.

21:09.67
Phil Street
So what, but you felt like you had some unfinished business.

21:13.83
Rizwan
Yeah. For me, yes, I thought that I had some unfinished business, but it was just like the experience during that time was so amazing. You know, you get to semi-final. I didn't, ah i to be honest, I didn't expect I'd pass the quarterfinals because, you know, you you go, this was my first ever competition in any ah formats.

21:30.45
Rizwan
And for me to be there.

21:30.57
Phil Street
I mean, you've gone straight to the top with that with your experience, right?

21:31.82
Rizwan
Yeah.

21:35.05
Phil Street
Is that we'll do this and then all the other competitions will just be, you know, way easier.

21:39.72
Rizwan
Yeah. You could say that, but I think all the other competitions were quite different on its own.

21:44.53
Phil Street
Hmm.

21:44.83
Rizwan
But yeah, I think, you know, becoming a semifinalist, you know, you did few things where I thought I could have done better. And you you for me, I was like, okay, it's a good experience. I met a lot of people. i saw some amazing people move on to be in the winning finalists of those years.

22:00.82
Rizwan
And I was like, okay, this is great. To be honest, when I went in 2021, I still remember I was in the Langham for the quarterfinals and I didn't know a single soul.

22:11.30
Phil Street
Thank you.

22:11.54
Rizwan
And for me, my heart was beating fast. And I was like, where am I? Have I made a mistake? What is this? You know, I don't have the confidence. But as the competition started, you know, the the judges, they make you feel so at ease. um People around you make you feel at ease.

22:27.17
Rizwan
I still remember meeting Sergio for the first time there. And that, you know, the conversation I had with Sergio was amazing. And I look up to him after all these years as well. i always text Sergio Natasha with my life updates or what would be the best thing to do. And I think they they they are a great pioneer of our industry and they have achieved so much.

22:49.06
Phil Street
No doubt.

22:49.36
Rizwan
And I think over these years, you really understand of massive sentence which means if you don't ask, you don't get. you know It's always a no. And it's always good to ask because you but even if the answer is negative, you can make it positive in your mindset. right so it's But if you don't ask, you wouldn't know the the different the verses you know we call the different multiverses. You wouldn't know. and i think It's better to ask and just come back more prepared. And I came back more prepared.

23:22.35
Rizwan
I wanted to go back into in 2022, but I had an accident where I broke my clavicle. So, hey son yeah, it was like physically unfit.

23:26.68
Phil Street
Oh, I mean, that'll get in the way. Yeah.

23:31.79
Rizwan
And I didn't want to waste somebody's opportunity by just going there because I know I wouldn't perform well. So I, you know, I took a drawback and I came back in 2023, moving to 2024. And, you know,

23:44.94
Rizwan
I was quite honoured and quite grateful to become one of the winning finalists. For the judges and trustees to see me, that I've you know met the criteria and you know to be part of the winning finalists.

23:56.17
Rizwan
From my personality to shine, I think was quite a lovely moment in my life.

24:02.24
Phil Street
Yeah. Yeah.

24:03.92
Rizwan
That's one of the highest points of my career, I would say. and i like To be as a winning finalist out of all the speech the amazing people that took part over the years. And then, you know, Not always you get to do a table of four service.

24:19.04
Rizwan
Just one table ah for the finals, which is quite relaxed, but fun.

24:25.01
Phil Street
yeah

24:25.08
Rizwan
it's It's just the journey was very fun.

24:27.24
Phil Street
but No doubt. And you know what? the The thing that I always remember from this, and actually we've we've had Natasha on the show and um we were talking about the Gold Service Scholarship and in a bit of depth, but ah the the joyous thing for me as I stood in that room in Claridge, as they were announcing in your year, um you know the winner from the the eight, the you can almost get a sense of that none of the eight, obviously everybody wants to be the ultimate winner,

24:56.05
Rizwan
I mean,

24:56.07
Phil Street
But there was this bond between you all that was like you just wanted to see everybody else like do the best that they can do. And if you get if somebody else beats you to that you know the grand, grand prize, then they're going to bloody deserve it, right? Because you' you've all kind of put your heart and soul into this and and you can walk away going, yeah, ah you all ah get into the final eight.

25:18.42
Phil Street
It's an absolute achievement. And um and you it's, but you know, you still get to experience loads of amazing things, right? As you say this, so it's, it becomes less about the competition, and more about the bonds that you build, and the experience that you have in general.

25:28.43
Rizwan
For

25:33.97
Rizwan
me, winning was never option. I just wanted to see myself in the top eight. And I think I got a bit relaxed after. And I was very happy for our current scholar.

25:45.54
Rizwan
And, you know, he deserved it. He has an aspiring journey as well. So I think you always need somebody to represent the group. And nobody else could have done it better. So I think...

25:57.44
Rizwan
It was amazing. ah You know, you sit there, you want everybody to succeed. But that's the beauty of hospitality. We are so, hospitality will like ah people to shine. There is no discrimination. There is no, how would I say, there no and the unfair judgments in hospitality. You know, it gives equal opportunities to everyone without experience or with experience. you know you if you can thrive, you'll move forward.

26:22.40
Phil Street
Yeah, totally. and Just thinking, Rizwan, I think because your screen keeps going dark, I think it's probably because of the the fact that you've sat with a a window behind you.

26:34.04
Phil Street
I don't know if...

26:34.39
Rizwan
ye

26:34.40
Phil Street
can Can you move to your right slightly? Yeah, or...

26:38.16
Rizwan
thank

26:39.31
Phil Street
I don't know if that...

26:39.47
Rizwan
Could be, yeah. There you go.

26:40.39
Phil Street
It might help.

26:41.01
Rizwan
think this should work. Yeah, there you go.

26:42.34
Phil Street
It might help. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. i the The thing for me, though, is is that like you are not satisfied with just doing the gold service scholarship. You have done other competitions as well. So this philosophy this newfound philosophy post-COVID whereby you're going to push.

27:02.09
Phil Street
I think that like you know why does competition play and a part in that new philosophy, do you think?

27:10.77
Rizwan
For me, it's so about pushing yourself forward and trying yourself out of the comfort zone because i felt your body and your mind can do like you know a lot of things that you cannot expect it to do if you are given under a pressurized scenario.

27:29.64
Rizwan
And for me, competitions is something I enjoy doing, not because for the recognition I get later. It's nothing to do with that. It's about me doing things that I wouldn't have imagined me doing years before.

27:45.09
Rizwan
So I think my first ever success in competitions was the Animal Awards of Excellence by RAKA, which is the Royal Academy of Culinary Arts. um For me to have pushed myself to the final and then to achieve it later, you don't always find yourself doing ah service in a three-mission establishment I think we were going to pass at the Dorchester where we got to carve a fish. We got to serve from starters to do the wine decanting to finish all the desserts.

28:17.05
Rizwan
It was amazing to see, like, you know, if you were to ask me that I'd be doing this kind of service a few years back, my answer would have been no. But the fact that I was able to see myself do this was something amazing. And this is what I like to see about myself. I like to push myself out of my comfort zone, you know, because I believe And I tell this to my team every day. And sometimes they I get a lot of eyebrows raised when I say it.

28:42.00
Rizwan
I do tell them every time that diamonds are made under pressure. So pressure can be taken positively and negatively, but it's all up to you. And you can't just sit there and complain, oh, I'm doing too much.

28:55.49
Rizwan
ah For me, you know, it's depending on what you've done. Yes, I can understand you're doing too much, but we need to appreciate them at that moment.

29:06.80
Rizwan
And yeah, competitions for me was just dislike. I want to do see myself doing things which I haven't done. And i want to inspire others. And know, I'm quite surprised sometimes when people do text me or send me emails or to meet up with me to get in, not cheat code, but for me to share the experience, how the competitions work.

29:29.96
Rizwan
And when they say thank you for your guidance, it's something which I feel quite proud of because I'm inspiring the others to do the same thing. And I think that's what hospitality needs right now. It needs a lot of engagement from the young generation for them to take it as the first career path. It's not your part-time job where you come in for few months and then you move on to a different career path.

29:53.66
Rizwan
I think that phase that you come in as a part-time job and that phase of months that you do, I think... hospitality, if you really see it, it should be enough for you to make in, like, you know, for you to fall in love with the field because this is the only field where it pays you to learn knowledge of food and beverage.

30:11.90
Rizwan
You know, you get to meet people.

30:12.82
Phil Street
yeah

30:13.96
Rizwan
yeah you you get to see different cultures. You get to meet people from all around the world. You know, hospitality prepares you for life, you know, which I can be a bit biased when I say a nine-to-five might not do it, but you You get to see different side of it, right? You can see a very busy breakfast service where you lose all the energy in it, but somehow you gain them back before the lunch service starts.

30:37.62
Rizwan
But you can see yourself starting quite late and then you see that amazing rush at 9pm in the evening, but a very full dining room will make your heart knit up. So I think these are some amazing you know moments of hospitality, which is important.

30:54.18
Phil Street
Yeah, yeah. And you know the the point you raise are around pushing yourself and and kind of stretching that comfort zone is is massively important. There's a saying out there, I don't know who has this, and everything that you ever want is on the other side of fear.

31:09.84
Phil Street
And a lot of the time, you know, we we and this is quite wide widely reported these days, rightly or wrongly. I'm not here to judge on on anybody's individual situations, but a lot is made of work life balance. And, you know, and and that's massively important for ah for general life balance, I would say, rather than specifically work life balance. I would focus more just on life balance in that phrase is that.

31:38.03
Phil Street
a lot of a lot the time it's like, ah that was difficult, so I'm going to walk away from that. Whereas is actually, if you push through the difficulty... the the gold is on the other side. you know So the difficulty in your situation is entering into a competition whereby you feel perhaps like on day one, like you're a little bit like the rabbit in the headlights.

31:58.04
Phil Street
you know What am I doing here? I don't know anyone. Am I out of my depth? Well, yes, you are. But that's great. That's what you want. You want a little bit of out of your depth because otherwise,

32:08.85
Phil Street
this comfort zone just actually, it doesn't stay as it is, it contracts. and And kind of COVID is also a prime example of that in the sense that, you know, as you quite rightly say, we all had more time to sleep.

32:20.56
Phil Street
We all had more time to relax, chill, all of that that kind of stuff.

32:23.71
Rizwan
Thank you.

32:25.82
Phil Street
But that is dangerous because you, as you do, you then look at yourself in the mirror eight months later and your hair's all over the place and your beard is, you know you know, I can recount,

32:37.06
Phil Street
getting far too comfortable with you know having a pretty free schedule you know it you know it's a it's a dangerous place to be so i'm not suggesting for a second that everybody needs to spend every minute of their life pushing pushing pushing pushing that's dangerous as well but the comfort zone thing for me is the you know what's the worst thing that happens if you stretch it you know you push yourself out of it And i think hospitality is amazing at teaching us this skill in a way that sometimes you don't even know it's happening, um you know, because something just happens on service.

33:13.38
Phil Street
In fact, yeah you know, I think you have a you've got a story about a scary moment that happened in um ah within within a service.

33:20.57
Rizwan
it is

33:22.22
Phil Street
and So, yeah, tell us a story, actually, and then and we can kind of carry on the conversation.

33:28.94
Rizwan
the second year of cinnamon club and had just been promoted as a reception manager and it was quite a busy saturday service and we had um guests all the way from germany and this was a beautiful couple celebrating the i think if i'm not wrong i think they were celebrating their 22nd wedding anniversary

33:53.27
Phil Street
Oh, wow. Right. right

33:53.78
Rizwan
and they were seated in the reading room which you know we we we call it the reading room because it was wilson churchill's study room in the westmester library and you know quite irony ironically we had done uh first day trading in the morning we had people come in you know teaching us so i was very beautiful state for some reason that day um but the way you know life works is amazing and uh Unfortunately, this lady started having chest pain.

34:31.72
Rizwan
we We used to call it the third seating because we used to have a rush of people coming in at 9pm, a rush of people leaving the dining room. so you know Relays need to be done, cloakroom needs to be looked after, you know bar needs to be checked in, we need to bring people from the bar, seat them to the dining room.

34:48.23
Rizwan
You have an X amount of opportunities, an X amount responsibilities at your desk, ah which is the reception. And, you know, I went to the research reading room to collect some venues back, and and I could see this lady there. ah my um The head waiter during that time was stressing what needs to be done.

35:09.22
Phil Street
Yeah.

35:09.47
Rizwan
At the moment, I had two receptionists already working under me, which I could, you know, be, okay, can leave the you know, the ship with you, you know, you can you can drive it forward while I, you know, access this situation.

35:24.28
Rizwan
So I went in and, you know, she she was holding her chest quite, and I think she was going for a ha card like a heart attack, cardiac arrest. um

35:33.50
Phil Street
yeah

35:33.85
Rizwan
So without thinking, um you know, I took the guest with me, sat her down in our lobby without creating a scene because the last thing you want is for her to be uncomfortable with people looking at her.

35:45.91
Rizwan
um We had a taxi service outside our restaurant and I was like, you know, let's go to the nearest hospital. And the nearest hospital was St. Thomas Hospital, which was 10 minutes away. um I broke a lot of rules during that time because I didn't inform my GM and I didn't inform my line manager that I'm leaving the premises.

36:04.65
Rizwan
But I just thought, let me just leave it. I told my receptionist, manage the books. I'll be back in 20 minutes. So I left, took them to the hospital, got them in the A&E.

36:16.69
Rizwan
And the gentleman there was like, you know, can you please give me your name and, you know, your phone number and address. So I just gave my name and I gave the restaurant's number. but I said, you know, I don't check my phone during service, but if there's something you require, just give us a call at the telephone line.

36:33.24
Phil Street
Yeah.

36:33.55
Rizwan
And, you know, and, you know, they got escorted in. And from that time, I didn't really know what happened to them if, something got serious or it was a minor pain. or you know I didn't want to extravagant it but it was quite ah scary moment just that you know the adrenaline of service leading to for you to solve this issue and line your first state instincts coming in.

36:56.15
Rizwan
I came back. ah My GM was very upset, was very pissed off is the right term to use here. now How can you leave your manager? You can't leave your station. you He was very right in all the points because I didn't inform him.

37:12.94
Rizwan
i And I just apologized. And I'm like, you know, it is what it is. If you find like giving a disciplinary action, you can. I did something which ah no nobody should do. But like I felt in that moment it was required.

37:26.69
Rizwan
um After service, you know he was he came to me and he was like, you know you know, you did the right thing. you know I'm sorry if I was too much, but that you need to understand you can't be just leaving the restaurant like this. I'm like, no, totally understand your point. you know you're You're trying to discipline.

37:40.19
Rizwan
You have rules, sets of rules and regulations in the restaurant. And I just variegated it. And I think this was it. you know like it was It was a very scary moment. And the fact that we didn't escalate it and we didn't speak about it at the service.

37:53.77
Rizwan
I didn't speak to my team about it, like bragging about me. Like, oh I've done this. It stayed with me. But the highlight point of the career was few weeks after i was working Sunday, because I used to love working Sundays and I still do love working Sundays. because I find Sundays are the best days to work in hospitality because you get a lot of people from our world that come to dine. So you get, you know, you get to converse with them. You get to show your service.

38:20.15
Rizwan
But it was ah Sunday afternoon, 1 p.m., massive bouquet of flowers coming in. And i was in the reception thinking, i don't have any notes of some guests saying they're going to be delivering any bouquet here.

38:31.92
Rizwan
So, and it's like, this flowers are for this one. And I was like, who is so kind enough to send me flowers? I've never received flowers in my life.

38:40.95
Phil Street
Yeah.

38:41.04
Rizwan
um But yeah, it was it was a note from the guests saying, thank you for your support and for assisting us. We are all okay and we look forward to seeing you soon, which I think touched my heart and I was like, okay, you know this is the beauty you know of hospitality for me, yeah but for the guests to remember it.

38:53.74
Phil Street
yeah

39:00.90
Rizwan
um was, I think, the the best moment of my career. like one of It became from scary to a career point which I'm quite happy about it. you know I got to deal with. it But yeah, but it was frightening.

39:12.10
Phil Street
Yeah.

39:13.81
Rizwan
I could remember my heart was beating quite hard. i was When I was in that taxi, leaving the restaurant, going to the hospital, it was not beating that fast when I was coming back from the hospital. was like, ah, I have to deal with so much stress now.

39:26.74
Rizwan
But it was fun. it not It was all worth it.

39:28.13
Phil Street
Yeah. I mean, less lessons everywhere, right?

39:29.83
Rizwan
But...

39:31.28
Phil Street
I mean, there's not there's not um there's not many things that are more important than service, but human life is probably one of them, I would say.

39:36.29
Rizwan
Okay.

39:39.86
Phil Street
But also a lesson for your your GM, maybe in that moment as well, is that you know' make sure that you get the full story before you come charging into the the the situation.

39:46.25
Rizwan
Okay.

39:48.79
Phil Street
And so And take a breath before, you know, because yeah these are these are also quite important formative moments. You were still quite young at this point, right? In terms of still establishing your career.

40:00.85
Phil Street
The last thing you need if you're um ah positive towards your career and, ah you know, and and energetic towards that is one, here's a situation that is taking me right outside my comfort zone. I've done the best that I can with my own life experience in terms of how I should deal with this.

40:17.19
Phil Street
Could I have handled things better? Of course. Will I learn that for the next time? Of course, all of that. But um the you the last thing you need is somebody to stunt your enthusiasm at in that moment because they um they were a man down for you know an hour or whatever it it was. um that That kind of stuff happens. so But yeah, great kind of demonstration of this the sorts of stuff that just happens, right? I mean, that whereby... and

40:47.84
Rizwan
just sitting around, it just happens.

40:47.81
Phil Street
and Yeah. and you you know you the that And hospitality teaches you how to deal with these things. And you I've said this before on the show.

40:56.32
Rizwan
Thank you.

41:00.45
Phil Street
I'm thinking of somebody like ah the great Robin Shepard, who we've had on the show, who you know president of Bespoke Hotels. An amazing story. And I've spoken to him about the fact that you know even somebody who's experienced as him, who has done so many different things with his career to this point,

41:20.00
Phil Street
could still walk in to a hotel tomorrow and something will come up that he's never come across before, you know, just because that's life and that's the the stuff that you can't plan for.

41:30.34
Rizwan
I couldn't agree more to what you said. And life just happens.

41:34.54
Phil Street
Yeah. Yeah.

41:38.61
Phil Street
yeah Well, I'll come back to your original quote all the way back at the beginning. Isn't something that can be defined, um you know, so, but yeah.

41:44.06
Rizwan
Can you read?

41:46.26
Phil Street
Um,

41:49.11
Phil Street
There's also a story about Valentine's Day dinner, ah which which intrigued me. um and So yes, please do tell. around we've just had Valentine's as well, so it's almost bang on point.

41:59.91
Rizwan
it teachs I had quite a lot of stories in my entire life. It's always amazing to see how things could be so unpredictable and how things could work out at the end.

42:11.74
Rizwan
But yeah again, coming back to the early years of career when now you we had a very busy Valentine's night, I think Valentine's is a day where every restaurant is busy. And I think all the managers really hate working on Valentine's because there's only tables of two.

42:26.53
Rizwan
So all the fives and six, you have to all make sure that you're giving it to twos.

42:26.84
Phil Street
Right, right.

42:31.34
Rizwan
But I think it was just more like, um you know, be we were quite busy. um There was gentleman waiting for his date to write. And, you know, we are working on a two-hour, one-time kind of policy.

42:47.39
Rizwan
And, you know, and the lady comes in and, you know, she's very late and she was apologetic to the reception. He's like, no, no, it's fine. You know, you glad you made it. So, you know, we escort her to a table and the gentleman starts pointing in his watch and you're like, you're late.

43:07.19
Rizwan
I think you can do that if you already know the person. You know if you you met we went on a few dates, it makes sense. But if you do that to a first date, I don't think so that's a good impression to start with.

43:16.95
Phil Street
Yeah, there's not going to be a second there, is

43:19.02
Rizwan
yeah you know I don't think it was the first day because you know she came and she sat down. The waiter came and did the water. She drank the water and she was nice meeting you and she just left. And the guy just the guy just stood there looking like but like embarrassed.

43:30.19
Phil Street
there?

43:32.76
Phil Street
Quite right too.

43:34.53
Rizwan
you know like and Everybody in the dining room just witnessed this happening. I'm there trying to control my laughter. I'm there just feeling like what an embarrassing moment. yeah need It was not needed. And I think it was it was just very funny.

43:48.68
Rizwan
And if I was in that guy's situation, i would I would be very embarrassed. I don't think I would be going in any event, in any dates, to be honest. I'd be just leaving it to, you know, to the hands of the future.

44:01.27
Rizwan
Because it was just, i it just didn't make sense.

44:01.50
Phil Street
No, indeed.

44:04.93
Rizwan
Thank

44:05.44
Phil Street
Yeah, and went very bold to do a first date on Valentine's Day as well. I mean, that sets the bar, right? Very early on, and he absolutely fell under the bar.

44:11.09
Rizwan
you.

44:13.91
Phil Street
um

44:14.32
Rizwan
Yeah, definitely.

44:17.04
Phil Street
Yeah, superb. um I just want to take you back to Cinnamon. We talked we touched on this around um gm at ah

44:26.13
Rizwan
Mm-hmm.

44:26.62
Phil Street
you know quite a quite a meteoric rise to that position. Obviously, they must have seen something in you to to give you that responsibility. It's not something that they just you know hand out willy-nilly to anyone. so you know but I think probably anyone who's gone on to anything can probably recount a moment whereby somebody's given you an opportunity that perhaps and within yourself you're like, am I ready for this?

44:51.03
Phil Street
i I don't know if I am. But then talk to me about the kind of the pressure that comes on you in that moment as as a 21-year-old when you've got to manage, as you said, so people who are vastly more experienced ah in terms of what they've seen and and and done. how did How did you get around that?

45:11.35
Rizwan
I think it was one of those things where, you know, you're never prepared for. And, you know, it's, you can go through the books and you can learn as much as you want. But when you're given in that situation, it's very different to what you can imagine.

45:26.42
Rizwan
For me, it was, i took it as a, i ah the how would I say, it was an accomplishment, definitely. But for me, I was very scared. kid i can let you know, still now I was,

45:39.20
Rizwan
I was very nervous, how I going to do it? you know ah Obviously, I had the support of my operations, had the support of the management team leading. had a very amazing team. The the team pays a very important part in you know leading a restaurant.

45:56.38
Rizwan
But it's just, I guess, you know when you have a team which is filled with experienced people, sometimes you know delegating them or telling them what needs to be done could be very difficult.

46:07.72
Rizwan
because you do not want to sound arrogant when you do it you do not want to sound too kind when you're doing it you don't want to be too humble you don't want to be too delegated so I think there has to be a balance of how you can say things out because now you're not like for me when I was cinema I've been I spent there three years I knew everyone so there was a bit of you know, a bit of compatibility with stuff.

46:33.83
Rizwan
That could also be an issue later on because, you know, when you get promoted with that team that you see it as a family, and people would not see you seriously on that role. So, you know, for me, leading the team at Kanishka was fun, i would say, it was difficult in the beginning because, you know, the we had a lot of head, you know, the waiters and the assistant managers who were not really you know happy to see somebody come in when they thought they deserved the role because I think they go everybody goes through that.

47:03.15
Phil Street
Yeah.

47:05.92
Rizwan
But I think it's just winning the team by being a good leader, but not just delegating, but also joining them in what they were doing because I was not that kind of a GM that would sit in the office of half of the time. um For me, I would step into service help them achieve service. I would be clearing tables, I would be taking orders, I would be leading them, showing them, you know, ah if I can do it, so can you.

47:33.55
Rizwan
And but during my breaks, I would be doing admin stuff. But I think but was one of those difficult moments where you your work can only show why you're working on the show why who got promoted and why the management thought you deserved this role.

47:52.89
Rizwan
ah You can't waste your time just justifying yourself and giving you know solutions and giving points to others like why I deserve this role. It's about my work will show you and if I can lead you and I can assist you, I want you as my team.

48:08.17
Rizwan
There is no I in you, it's us. So I think that is the biggest, I think the key that helps any manager achieve its goal and somebody told me long time back which is very true a good example of a manager is when the restaurant can run and the team can run the restaurant without him or her or them being present there you it's a very golden word because if they're calling you

48:38.86
Rizwan
for help. That means you're micromanaged and you don't want to be micromanaging. And lot of people need to understand this is very important because I used to do this as well. Micromanaging is one of the worst things you can do. You need to let people thrive in their departments so you can find them where they need help. If you will be always doing things for them, or you know firstly, you'll miss the amount of work that you've been given.

49:04.35
Rizwan
because you're just helping them. And the others, they just start relying on you every time. So I think you need to give them those pressurized scenarios for them to outperform themselves.

49:15.01
Rizwan
So you can have an amazing team that you can try. And from there, you can learn the strengths and weaknesses.

49:17.89
Phil Street
Yeah.

49:19.76
Rizwan
You can learn your strengths and weaknesses. And I think micromanagement needs to be something that needs to be really, really looked into in every manager's history of books.

49:30.93
Rizwan
Because if you if you're still micromanaging, It's not a bad thing where people rely on micromanaging. If it's a small restaurant, it makes sense. But when you go to big fields, it will stop you from elevating your next steps because you always micromanaged.

49:45.36
Rizwan
And you become a bit more, how would I say, rigid because you want to be part in everyone's story. Sometimes it's okay just to mind your own business and move forward. Yeah.

49:53.13
Phil Street
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, superb. Look, this has been awesome, Rizwan. Thank you so much for for your time. ah So many lessons in here. and Just from somebody who has, you know, I suppose, woken up and started pushing themselves and um and look at what's possible.

50:12.32
Phil Street
You know, it's wonderful to hear that you guys are doing great um as well. And I just, I love some of your philosophies around life and leadership. um And I think we could absolutely all take a leaf out of your your book.

50:25.92
Phil Street
from that. So I yeah i wish you can continued success. Keep on this wonderful trajectory that you're on. Who knows where it's going to take you? That's going to be probably a great joy to find out for you and for for us.

50:38.17
Phil Street
um And wish you all the very best with the next chapter.

50:41.25
Rizwan
Thank you very much for time. Thank you for having me and in your podcast. and i think had a lovely time, you know, re-embracing and going through back in times. But yeah, I think it's it's an amazing world we live in and we're part of hospitality. and We just need to make sure we're thriving and, you know, sharing the word out.

51:02.24
Rizwan
think that's what the word out.

51:06.26
Phil Street
yeah Here, here. good Good man. Take care and I shall see soon.

51:11.94
Rizwan
Love it. Do something.

51:13.14
Phil Street
Cheers.