#155 - Hospitality Meets Jose Souto - Educating through Inspiration and Energy

00:01.00
philjstreet
And a huge hospitality meets welcome to Jose Souto have I got that right? Perfect that was a first time for everything that um, how are you? yeah.

00:05.69
Jose
Yep, that's it. That's right. Good Good Yeah, good warm hot is.

00:13.89
philjstreet
It's I mean it's sometimes that's great right? And then sometimes you're just like oh can we just get the air condition in now.

00:17.72
Jose
Well, but I've been at work for the last two weeks with basically every day because we've got the exams happening at the moment so Spare a thought for the kids that are doing all their exams at the moment. So four five of hour exams well actually 6 hour exam yesterday because it's a diploma and and today I had a few meetings here at home.

00:26.19
philjstreet
Ah, yeah, right.

00:35.87
Jose
Um, a few basically sort of like ah teams meetings as well and this so yeah, that's that's why I'm not home. Yeah.

00:41.28
philjstreet
Yeah I mean this is the highlight of your day isn't it. You had no comment. Yeah, um, yeah, it will just tell the bottle to you are and what it is that you do.

00:51.60
Jose
So my name is Jose Souto I'm a senior chef lecturer at Westminster Kings way college um I run basically the butchery side of it. So the butchery all the fishmongerry fish prep. Game prep um all that sort of stuff that comes into the whole of the college and that's for all 3 years and all our part time and our apprenticeships. Um as well as that I'm fairly well known for basically doing game outside the college as well as inside the college um done a few bits and pieces in my time on the game side. Um, and yeah.

01:24.27
philjstreet
Yeah, and to be clear. We're talking about a game in animal sense. Not just a general sense of playstation or board games if they even still exist board games. They wicked. Okay, well I mean before there was what you do now.

01:25.30
Jose
But that's it with me.

01:30.48
Jose
Um, yeah, no my my my 15 year old would probably be that.

01:44.14
philjstreet
Was obviously a pathway to to you getting to that point so take us all the way back to the the beginning. How did you get into hospitality in the first place.

01:54.29
Jose
Um, it was by accident I mean to tell you the truth. Um I know yeah with with other chefs that you've had in here. Basically they talk about? Yeah how they were from a very young age I loved to cooked and all that sort of stuff I did but that wasn't at the forefront of what I wanted to do. Um, I really didn't know what what to do? Um, at school. Ah I wasn't the most academic kid in the class and yeah I was sort of like pretty much middle of the road. Um, and when most kids sort of like ah in the sixth form and stuff like that they knew what they wanted to do I was still a bit sort of fluffy as to. What I wanted to do I do didn't understand what I wanted to do and then um by church chance. My parents are both Spanish so both basically came from Spain and I speak I speak flu and Spanish as well speak a little bit of Italian a little bit of french yeah, a little bit of all the Latin based languages if you like and.

02:46.55
philjstreet
Yeah, little bit cockney in there as well. Yeah.

02:50.29
Jose
Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah um yeah English is the worst language I speak out the 3 and but now my um, my father um was a head waiter and and he worked at some quite good places in London he worked at a lot of the casinos. So people places like the corfords.

02:57.25
philjstreet
Ah.

03:09.31
Jose
Crockford tori the barracooda um and asppeels he he were. He was basically worked up there and then when he finished at aspeal's his last job that he worked of was at the Ritz and he was the ah the head waiter so they basically had Ed Waititer and a manager that were in charge of the trafalgar suit. And Falgarswee is basically set up at the Ritz for looking after all of their vv ip guests so back then it was like when yeah fracois meter on and and Knight Reagan and all those sorts of people and yeah Gorbachev were coming over for the g 7 summits and they would go and have. Breakfast at the Ritz you know in this very plush, beautiful room that overlooks basic at yeah regions park opposite regions park now it's not region park high park a green park play your part near green park looks overlooks green park the ever of a beautiful balcony on there.

03:49.38
philjstreet
A green green park there. Yeah.

03:57.52
Jose
And these guys would basically that's where they'd be and that's where they get looked after all the people. Yeah when cunard owned owned the rates basically all the top bosses there and my dad and the head The the manager basically looked after everybody that that was their thing to look after everyone so but that is sort fairly well known in the industry. Um, and then.

04:15.91
Jose
What happened was he had a a childhood friend who grew up together in a small village in Northern Spain where they grew up and they both did their military service and went out into the wide world. Um, and yeah, both coming from a very very small village. They got a bit of the wonderlust and once they got out of the village you know because basically seeing. Everything else and 1 of them at Amando which is my dad's friend and he ended up basically going to madrid and then for madrid he ended up working as a captain steward on Iberia Airlines and when when we were living in London he'd come over and visit us and he'd bring his kids and his wife and they'd come over and stop off at aiss and they'd be off to. You know New York or they'd be off to San Francisco or Taiwan or wherever they were going and they had some great holidays and I'm thinking myself Jesus Christ yeah I could do this travel the world and do this sort stuff and because I had the second language it was pretty much. Yeah, a dumb thing so I spoke to him about it. Um.

05:08.85
philjstreet
Um.

05:10.20
Jose
When I was leaving school and I was sort then yeah I'd really like to give this a guy and he said yeah no problem said how old are you and I told him al once he went, you're a bit young yet he said so I'll tell you what they said go to catering college for a year he said do a catering course he said and basically it'll all stand you really really good stead for doing working on the airlines. So I thought okay. But can do that so my dad but that was a little bit against it because he he didn't want his kids going into the hospitality industry. You see it hard work and you know he really wanted something better for us. But yeah I I started really looking forward to it. He said? Okay, so if you're gonna go to anywhere. You're gonna go to the best college in the country which.

05:47.98
philjstreet
Right.

05:48.74
Jose
Is now Westminster. Oh I am I applied and I got 2 places I got a place on the btech course and I got a place on the ah Diploma course the the chef diploma. And out of the two I wasn't really looking at the chef avenue I was pretty much looking at the b tape yeah front house avenue management. That's the sort of thing I wanted to look at and so um I ah I turned up at college I remember on the first day and back then and your uniforms used to get 10 to college and they were wrapped up in this big.

06:08.48
philjstreet
Right.

06:21.48
Jose
Brown paper bag thing right? which looked like something that you were being conscripted into the army or something. Yeah, um, and ah I got I got there and I got I got to the first class and it was a btech class and the lecturer sort said to me. Well your name's not on the list.

06:25.68
philjstreet
As.

06:37.63
Jose
I said well. Ah yeah, got my paperwork here I showed him all the paperwork you went. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he said we were over subscribed for the B tech he said so you've been put on the national ches Diploma Now that was horrific to make yeah because I thought on the pod. Yeah I'm I'm gonna go I'm going from basically this avenue where I was gonna be quite comfortable working front of house and that sort of thing.

06:47.40
philjstreet
Right? Yeah yeah.

06:57.70
Jose
Now working as a chef yeah with a little bit of front house and so um I was a bit sort of traumatized in my first few days at College. Um, yeah, wearing Chef whites and basically getting into the kitchen but I did like cooking at home and my mom's a brilliant cook. And obviously lots of Spanish food and stuff like that. But my mum was also very yeah yeah, he' very innovative with basic food and and fusion and yeah, that sort of stuff use quick cook quite like a lot of British dishes as well as basically greek dishes and all sorts of Stuff. You know'll be tried at home. Our palates are quite open to all that sort of Stuff. So I.

07:28.90
philjstreet
Um.

07:32.73
Jose
For the first week or so I was horrified and then afterwards I sort of eased into it and then um, the first few tests came through and I was doing really well. Yeah I was getting top marks. Yeah, there was ah there was me and basically a few other guys that were basically in the in the class and some quite well-known guys now they're out there Gary Klunger who is the executive head chef of the um ah the or god what's the landmark. Yeah Gary Client Panmark or Gary was a collegerma so he's yeah, he's there. He's so he's basically he was at college with me and we were in the same class.

07:56.20
philjstreet
Landmark Landmark Yeah got I Still got it I Still got it.

08:09.70
Jose
And then is there was other people like a guy called Blas Midthirst who Blair was basic development chef for m ands for quite a while he was the head development chef for them and then he went out to Australia now I think he's a global head of foods for Nado I think he is basic. So yeah, so so people that you know so we we and I was doing is. You know top of the class. Yeah getting great marks. Yeah, really put of enjoying what I was doing and I say this to parents now that come and bring students to us I'd found my thing you know and some of these kids that come to us that are in the same sort of limbo as I was. And their parents don't know what to do and then they come to us and within the first year they see a massive change in them. Yeah, they the kids are into what they're doing. They're loving it. They're getting up early in the morning when they yeah used to have to leave them out of bed and. They are not worried about what time they get home when they get home. They're cooking you know and bringing the home work home with them and these kids have found their thing and that's what happened to me I found my thing and um, yeah, it went on really well, some great lecturers. It basically worked with me Michael Hollingsworth um yeah worked for me and and and and it was brilliant and um I loved it and after the first year um I was invited to come back to the second year which is what happens now. Yeah you they look at all your results I look at the thing and you get invited back to do the second year or they say gee look It's not for you or come back part-time or or whatever. Yeah I will look for another avenue but for me.

09:38.89
Jose
Yeah I was invited to come back. So I came back on the second year and basically what what the kids I think now do in about 3 years we did in 2 years and then the third year was like ah more of a management side of what our third year is like now but we did it part time. so so I did that I did 2 years at college got phenomenal marks um in the first six months doing a college I was doing competitions and basically got through to the national finals and yeah, hard. Yeah, ah I loved it. Um, and I really never looked back I mean since then the opportunities have basically sort of like opened up for me when I left college I went to work a board in spain and and I worked in productanous with which on a. People know, but it's basically sort of like the french riviera spain um, it's where all the expensive yachts are and all that sort of stuff and I worked there for a while at hotel there a restaurant sorry there? Um, and I did basically 2 three months there that restaurant then I moved from that restaurant to another restaurant. It was a case of basically I'd left college. My parents had a flat in spain. So. Didn't have to pay any rent so I basically went out there and went and worked a couple of different places to learn so I spent did another few months at another restaurant which the first restaurant was more more seafood or orientated and then the second restaurant was more meat orientated um and barbecues and big grills and stuff like that and um.

10:35.99
philjstreet
Yeah.

10:54.26
Jose
Learned a lot about ingredients from different parts of Spain learned a lot. Um, not so much it wasn't so much classical food. You know it's a very sparish spanish orientated food but very good quality high level and then when I came back from Spain. Um. I went to I basically was I didn't have a job in vue and I went and worked for um land sorry transport for London's head office. So basically their head office was above 55 to Broadway and they had directors dining rooms there which were private dining rooms and there were 6 dining rooms in a restaurant. And it was all for the directors of what is London reader transport now and they um yeah had a fantastic kitchen. Yeah budget was no option. No no problem and we I worked there for a little while um and then while I was there I was some of my friends were working at the house commons and then I got asked if I yeah. Would apply and for the house of coms I applied for the house of commons and got a job at the house of comments. Okay I came in as a yeah as a first com and they had 5 grades of Com um's a bit opposite to basically the way it works in hotels so you started as comy one and then you worked your out to commy 5 and sometimes you when you get to commy 3 you would. Escape them and by see you might become basically a senior chef party or or a demichef or party or whatever I worked my way up and I I was at the comments for I think about 11 years and while we're at the commons we had these? um these stars which we used to do because we had quite a lot of the recesses based the way the recress successsors worked.

12:10.73
philjstreet
Um, yes.

12:24.56
Jose
They alternate us to basically work the recesses so we were offered stars use and I went and worked at um, the intercontinental park lane for a few months with when Peter K Crombbo was still there. Lovely man really really nice man and fan out who learned a lot from him I worked to um mossermans and be gravia.

12:40.31
philjstreet
Nice, yeah.

12:42.23
Jose
Um, love that as well. Yeah, love again, lovely person. Yeah, even when I see Anton now. Yeah, even though all those years ago I only spent sort like no no two months three months with him. He still remembers me remembers my name last thing about Anton whenever you meet him. He remembers everybody's name such a gentleman I had my but.

12:57.72
philjstreet
Right? That's um, that place is remarkable when you walk in even to this day and the photos of everyone that he's met in the lifetime of either at Mosmans itself or or pre that.

13:11.96
Jose
Ah, yeah, and the attention to detail there and the the calmness of the kitchen because what I mean is very calm kitchen and yeah and I think Anton um, he uses that that calmness that knowledge he's a great. He's a great teacher and and a great. Um, yeah, he sees.

13:14.70
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

13:19.77
philjstreet
Right.

13:31.72
Jose
Ah, more than 1 occasion I've seen him sort of come through the kitchen and he'd see a particular type of ingredients or something and he'd he'd go over and he'd say oh yeah, this is such and such and I remember one day we were doing rabbits. Ah, for a dish that they had think was a terreen or something anywhere we were butcheing the rabbits and he saw the rabbits he come over and he gathered everyone round and he started telling him stories about when he was in Switzerland and the rabbits and preparing them off the farm and all sort of stuff much the horr horrify of the of the ah the sous chefs right? who had basically a service starting right? and they're all standing in the background like i.

14:00.50
philjstreet
Um, right? yeah, come along? yeah.

14:01.74
Jose
In then I come on. But um, but yeah I mean yeah, great and and the stories he had told him everything was great and and then I also worked at the yeah Savo Grill um and at the Ritz um for a little while. So basic. Yeah I sort of moved around a lot basically in that period that the housecoms allowed you to do that. Has commons. One of the best training grounds for any young chef I mean I stephen nowadays I mean the opportunities they have in there. Um, the time you have to learn and do courses and stuff like that brilliant I mean I did a master fishmongry course at a March of butchery course while I was there so I see it. It was really really good. So yeah in app.

14:33.99
philjstreet
Right.

14:38.20
Jose
Pretty much brings me up to now to the how to the yeah to the college and the college came again by accident. Um I one of the guys that worked me at the commons um had left and he went to where he he was at the college doing a teacher training course. Because the commons was thinking about starting up a needle educational part of what we did and what we the way they started up at first is they got all of the senior chefs by then I was a junior soou chef basically to work to do um some sort of training for the demi chefs and chefs the parties and the commies. So you had to pick a subject and then do a training course and um and they wanted to head this up with one of the guys that was basically um electra yeah, that basically was qualified as lecturer and and Steve Warpole who is still a good friend of mine Steve Walpole basically went to go and do that course and then he um. He loved college. You know when he was doing his teacher training course and then he did his course and at the end of it a little while later he decided to leave and go to college and he rang me sort of while I was away and he sort of said to me. Um, one of the things that I taught back at the commons was game and I'd written a little booklet all on game. yeah for the. yeah for the the chefs that we had that we were teaching and so he asked me to come into the college and do a presentation on game to the kids at the college and they'd never done it before because game was something sort of like that was on the peripheries of the you know of what was being taught. It was sort of like level 3 advance and nobody really did it in any detail you know.

16:10.84
Jose
And on top of that It was also buried under lots of old you know, yeah old recipes unforgiving recipes recipes with loads of Juniper and stuff like that really old fashioned and um, what I was doing is very different and also to understand I've always been a great a chef that understands about basic who wants to understand about Provenance. Want to understand about where food comes from wants to understand the story of Food. So then I can better. You know tell people about it and better educate people also sell it better on my menus. Yeah giving provenance to it and also to ensure that I'm using a sustainable Product. You know, basic see of what I'm doing that was the beginnings of all the sort of sustainability Side. So I went and did this presentation.

16:38.90
philjstreet
Yeah.

16:50.38
Jose
Gary Hunter was there. He was basically the head of school at the time and he came and spoke to me and sort of said to me um, have you ever thought of teaching and I thought well not really I said us off have you know all chefs are teachers. We're all natural teachers because we'll teach the guys basedally on the section. How to do something and we're all natural teachers. So.

17:05.31
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

17:09.38
Jose
Thought thought about it and then he asked me to come into the college on the yeah in the if I was finishing early because we because we did shift work sometimes on Friday we'd finished early so on the Fridays I finished early I went to the college and you know spent a few hours basically in different sections looking at what they were doing and then one of the lecturers basically was on a long term sick. And he um gary said I've got a position if you would like to have the position. He said you can I was allowed to take a sabbatical from the for the commons. So I did I took a three month sabbatical from the commons and I went to work at the college um, thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, absolutely loved what I did there? um learnt lots of new things I mean I've never really done butchery yeah part I did a course at the commons. But at commons I didn't work in the butchery I've never done fishmonry. Um I've never done any of that I've always been basically so kitchen larder chef and when I went to the. College I was learning lots of stuff that I I sort of knew but I didn't really know it that well and I'm honing all my talents on that and how to do things and so after three months ofat I went back to the commons and it's it's sort of pretty evident. Yeah, when I walked through the doors of the commons. Um, that I didn't want to be there anymore and not because I dont like I didn't like it or anything like that. It's just that I suppose with every chef there comes a time when you go to the extent of how far you're gonna go and you can't get any further and you know a job's what you make it.

18:25.72
philjstreet
Right.

18:43.84
Jose
At the commons. It's It's very difficult to basically sort of to reinvent what you're doing all time or to try and to come up with new ideas because you're quite yeah, you're quite suppressed in what you do, you've got this sort of like this. Ah um, audience that's in there. Yeah, they're there. They've got to eat in there. Yeah, and and so.

19:02.46
Jose
Yeah, and that's not derogatory of the comments or it or it's the way it works or anything like that. It's just for me. It was stifling what I was doing so I thought okay well gary said well he rang me and he sort of said to me oh the guy that was on long term sick left. So there was a position opening could I come in for an interview. So I said yeah, well yeah, I'd like to come in for an interview and he asked me to come in and interview the following day at twelve o'clock well I was starting service at twelve o'clock so there's no way I was gonna go at twelve o'clock so he said okay, what time you finish work. So I said oh I'll finish up for half past three and he said we'll see at four o'clock so I walked from the commons down to the college to school. Um.

19:39.25
philjstreet
Not not that far fit.

19:40.72
Jose
Did my interview which no, it's not that far I ran a corner and did my interview and did a skills test did a presentation to a load of kids. Um and then sat down to ah a board of people which basically just fired loads of questions at me and um. I think 3 hree four days later I got the phone call I got it and that was I hate as the say twenty years ago yeah

20:04.10
philjstreet
The rest is history. Yeah, and was there a a point in all of that because that's ah I suppose it's not what you set out to do right? That's not the wasn't in the original plan if there was at this point even a plan was there. Ah a part of you that that thought.

20:16.12
Jose
Um, go now. No.

20:23.79
philjstreet
This could be risky or there's a part that thought this is I don't know where this is going to lead to or or anything like oh it was like but this is just too cool to not give it a goal.

20:33.77
Jose
Um I had sleepless nights over it. Yeah, and before I Actually even said yes to the job. Yes whiskey and you can edit this out but I ship myself. Ah.

20:37.54
philjstreet
Um, right.

20:44.59
philjstreet
Um, no I wouldn't edit I that's.

20:50.24
Jose
I didn't I I'm quite a conservative person. Um I I like change I like learning new things and I'm very quick to adapt onto new things and change if I can see a benefit from it. I am not a person that is stuck in any rut in the way that basically yeah, we do it this way because this is the way we've always done it or we've always done it and there's no other way of doing it I'm open to ideas if I can see why but um I Want to know why? Yeah I Want to know the ins and outs of basically why that's gonna be better for me and try to understand it and then adapt it. And take it and use it. Yeah and then obviously going from what I was doing to teaching and was a big jump and so yeah I had about a beat weeks worth of of basically yeah, worrying about it I had a friend of mine who was ah.

21:31.98
philjstreet
Yeah.

21:43.39
Jose
Ah, guy who's um, he was a chef many moons ago he was retired now and I rang him up and I sort of said to our friend mine called Derek S Stockton and I said to Derek I said oh yeah, this has happened I've been off this job and there was all that deadly science on the phone and I said you still there and he went yeah and I said what's the problem I went well I don't know any and he went shut up but he just screamed down phone. They like so you're being an idiot it said I think about the opportunities that this will bring open to you know, think about what you'd be doing and make the job it yourself. But I think one of the reasons why I was a bit worried about it was because back then. It was sort of the college was seen as the elephant graveyard you know that basically all these shit. Great chefs would come to it right? and they sort of waddled in and yeah, they sort of went there to die. Yeah and there was a pile of ivory in the corner. Yeah yeah, ahle of ivory or a pile of a pile of chef's hats in the corner of the guys that have gone before you.

22:33.21
philjstreet
Um, yeah, it's an end of career role as it were yeah um yeah.

22:42.11
Jose
And but but it's not like that it wasn't like that and I was quite young coming into it. You know and and Steve was quite young as well. So both quite dynamic and and and we we wanted to adapt change and look at new things and change what was there you know to try and best suit and best teach kids that we have coming? Yeah, but. The whole thing has been about Basically what can we teach the kids better. What more can we teach them how being a chef has changed within the last sort of 30 years yeah when you thirty years ago you're a chef you cooked that was it. You know now you're an agony on you're a accountant you're a bu. Yeah, you, you? you've got to understand chemistry. You've got to understand basically health and safety to to a much higher level than than thirty years ago that you need to understand it so and also um, you are to a certain extent depending on where you get to. People's conscience you know with the food that they eat.

23:23.62
philjstreet
E.

23:35.29
Jose
And Health and all that sort of stuff because people look at you that what you've put on your menu is a good quality product that is ethical and sustainable. Yeah, and you've got to be able to basically say why and those sorts of things are the things that um I wanted to bring to the party if you like you know all that sort of stuff giving them their. Their feedback their background their provenance their understanding of what it was giving them those little snippets of information that nobody knew that they could grasp onto and think oh God That's a great bit of information to to give to kids because I think with kids when you when you teach them, especially with chefs as Well. When you show a chef something if you can give him that little bit of information. That's that's quirky. Yeah,, they'll remember what you've taught them for the rest of their lives because that's how they learn most chefs are a very sort of like tactile learners you know and auditory learners that basically you told I mean I remember when I was at the the college one day.

24:25.71
philjstreet
Um.

24:29.53
Jose
We were doing classifications of soups and 1 of the lecturers Colin Stone who was teaching me and that day we doing classfification soups and he was teaching us all about classifications and he got to this soup called clemrem solferina which is a very classical soup right? and to french soup and the Krem sourino is base is. Named after the battle of sullfurino and in the battle of sullferina what happened is that the french were completely outnumbered and the english were chasing him and they went into this great big gorge and in the gorge and they because they were cat outnumbered. They they're out firered as well. That fire power completely. So what? the french did is they set themselves up on one side of the gorge and as the english came running through the gorge they bombarded the walls of the gorge and they created sort of like an avalanche of all these rocks down the other killed a lot of the english army and won them the battle and then so Napoleon's basically chef came up with this soup. To basically further battle and and it's called cremsofino and in cremsofurino it's a half potato half to Mark soup and in the in there there are carrot balls which are carrot balls signify. Basically the cannon balls I see it and the white balls are potato which signify the rocks that came falling down and though that little snippet of information has stayed with me for that.

25:34.11
philjstreet
Um, right.

25:43.16
Jose
Ah, forty years it's a completely useless piece of inflation but I remember all my classifications are suit because of it so you.

25:49.10
philjstreet
Um, yeah, but and also I suppose in in some way it kind of maybe it informs the the type of teacher you become because you're you know you're actually you can teach somebody a recipe through the medium of visualization. You know or through history or whatever it. It might look like and these little things are the things that that probably your your students remember themselves and they walk away from and and you know because you've not just had somebody go so to make this soup. You will need 1 2 3 4 5 ingredients go.

26:11.68
Jose
Um, yeah.

26:19.35
Jose
Um, yeah, yeah.

26:22.13
Jose
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely well I'd hope that they'd go away and be telling that story to other people the same way if I've told it to you the same way I've told it hundred times to loads of other people. Yeah, and and that that story but then the cat that came off the back of that is.

26:23.63
philjstreet
Kind of thing and it's you know it's soulless and uninspiring isn't it.

26:35.55
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

26:41.14
Jose
Remembering of the classifications of so you have all of the ones that basically what they were and how they were and out worked and that sort stuff and that's what I tried to do with our kids as I try to yeah, give them those those visual you know, looks at what what we're doing and showing them different stuff explaining things to them going into a little bit more detail and they would have actually gone through. Um, so that they their learning outcomes are a lot higher than than what I mean we we we have this thing we call a westminster way which means that the curriculum basically tells us to teach sort of that much. Yeah and we teach that much you know because we want to fulfill them in what they're doing ah my my section within the college.. The butchery section is ah is is an expensive section to run and the college would possibly possibly save a lot of money by just basically buying everything in prep and then giving the kids just these little plastic boxes with the portions of food that they need to cook and the stuff that a restaurant meets but then they wouldn't be getting all of this extra teaching. Yeah, we wouldn't be.

27:35.30
philjstreet
Yeah.

27:37.73
Jose
Aging all our own beef. We wouldn't be basically taking 4 ribs down into steaks or into Coke the berths we wouldn't be making our own smoked salmons. We wouldn't be making our own bacon and ham and all that sort stuff. Yeah, and all those things basically of open up well done. Ah.

27:48.49
philjstreet
God I Want a job I want a job that sounds amazing. Yeah, but that but that I suppose and how you can't really put a price on how valuable that is at this stage of their career to learn as well.

27:57.20
Jose
At him.

28:05.25
philjstreet
Because you know let's face it if whatever their plan is whatever they want to become the more you can give them in that moment. They're also they're probably going to get to the end point of what their identity is in in terms of what they find interesting and cooking and all of that. Um.

28:18.27
Jose
It.

28:23.85
philjstreet
And they've got um I probably a much greater chance of success I had to.

28:27.59
Jose
I have no doubt that and and it has happened. Yeah, the ah the kids that we're teaching at some point will be on television or in a position where they are moving food trends and they need to understand. Consequences of the of the ingredients that they're using they need to understand where their ingredients come from if there is a problem with the production of that ingredient if there is a health um problem with that ingredients. Yeah, they need to understand all of that because they're going to be questioned on it. Yeah I I am no doubt that somewhere along the lines. We'll have the next Jamie Oliver basically at the college again and we will have taught him and then he's gonna go on to yeah what I don't want to see him is he basically go on to Saturday kitchen or James Martin yeah one morning and then be cooking a ah bluefin tuna steak and telling him what he how fantastic it is. Yeah. And then have a barrage of people basically have a guy in because it's an endangered species and they shouldn't be using it. They should understand the background and a progn support and if there is an argument about something because sometimes also what happens with food is that people can be can be sort of argumentive to the point whereby saying black white I'm not using that because of this and it's because.

29:26.36
philjstreet
Um.

29:40.99
Jose
Not educated in what it is about the product. So once you become educated about the problem you understand all of the pros and cons and what it's about and that stuff then you can basically give an opinion but you what you can't do is basically just fall into this right is because he said so I'm not going to use it. Yeah, you need to tell them why and tell and explain all of that.

29:52.62
philjstreet
Um, yeah, well I mean yeah.

29:59.56
Jose
And and yeah I there's plenty of times when people basically have questioned me on my use of product. Yeah of that I mean I am I'll give you an example we have a guinea fowl that come into the college. Um I sat when I came into the college and I started working the butchery full time and I said we didn't have a. Um, a statement of for the produce that we use you know a statement of ethical buying and and sustainability which was obviously becominging more and more important and so I wrote um a statement of ethical buying and sustainability. Yeah, for the college and um. That's available to our customers and all the kids have got it. They haves all on their on their Moodle pages and they can read it and it says why we use independent different things that we buy why we use certain things and why we don't use other things. Yeah and explains it all to them. We gone to the point as well on our second year ah in Theory Lessons we have a whole lesson It's just all about ethical farming and ethical buying and ethical production of food me know talking about veal you know as opposed to english roseveal the 2 differences between the 2 yeah and explaining it not saying one bet and the other just explain it to them the same right? These this is the this is how it works. Okay. Ah, you as an individual you need to basic say to do I want to be using Dutchville or do I know English Rosevere was the way to go. Basically that's that's the ah the the ethical side of it. The farming inside of it. Yeah, everything about it. That's a much better product. So that's the one that we need to be using and we need to educate people about that one. Yeah and move away from that 1.

31:32.22
Jose
Guinea fo another one me yeah we when I first came to the college route. We'd buy a french guinea fouling and a lot of them opinioned so people don't know what their opinioning is on the end of the wing where where you've got a bird's wing. You've got 1 bone that comes up up the head and the other bug goes and there's a little bone that comes on the end and that little bone what they do is when they're chicks I take a pair ofs and they cut it off. Ah, cut straight through the bone and what that does is it means the birds have got 1 wing longer than the other so they can't go up into trees so they can be free range but they can't fly up into trees at night. So they'll basically go into the houses and all that sort of so you're mutilating a bird at a very early age. Your own benefits so you can call it free range. So then it's basically you put it on the menu as free range that is a real that that doesn't work sit well with me. So so those that sort thing. Yeah a question about that sort of stuff and on why why we shouldn't use it I then right down to the sustainability side I mean like we.

32:09.99
philjstreet
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:25.39
Jose
We started doing all the sustainability stuff at the college way before a lot of other colleges started doing it. Well yeah, we we set up a sustainability setup for the college which um, the guild the fishmongers looked out and they basically gave us a grade a class stamp on it. So now. How good it was and that's because we were trying to. Get the kids to understand about sustainability and about using. Um, yeah, spreading the load of basically the fish that we were buying not buying 1 particular fish all the time to basically put in too much by see pressure on those fish understanding about alternative fishes that can be used sustainable alternative fishes. Yeah, um. Understanding about the grading system that basically goes with fish and where to find it. Yeah, where can they find it where can they find that information so that later on in life if they are writing menus and they need to be sustainable. They can go and look up and they understand all the pros and cons and where to find that information so that they can put together their own menus that are sustainable. And I think.

33:18.50
philjstreet
Yeah, so well here here's a question I thought I'd never ask on this podcast because this is ah this is we're going to move into education and educational now. But whether this but this question that's a good setup isn't it if I could have got more words out and what fish.

33:32.41
Jose
Um, it.

33:35.60
philjstreet
Right now are considered to be sustainable.

33:36.92
Jose
Um, it depends on. Basically what what you're looking for I mean it? Um, what we try to do is what we poo is we basically put we work with closely with our fishmongers. We have a sustainability system which is set up which is basically we have a grade to fish so each of the fish are graded now I use the. Ah, marine conservation society is basically grading the system and so with them what they do is when you um, you look at the basic they setup they have their number their fish from 1 to 5 so number one being the most sustainable option and that'll be things like um, well yeah. When we talk about farmed fish well farmed fish. So basically things like sea bass bream. You know some of those sort of things. Arstic chard is another one all those sorts ones and they'll be our grade one. Yeah they're very sustainable things lot of it about sustainable very well farmed. You know the managed. Well-managed farms. Basically if they're farmed if it's a wild fish again. Yeah, lots of it about yeah I'm basically taking then we have a grade 2 fish which is basically on the verge of being there. There are management issues with some of the ways in which those fish are captured. Yeah which you need to look at so basically with a grade two. It's still a sustainable fish option to use. Yeah, but you've got to keep an eye on Basically how that gradiing changes throughout years. We ah we change our grading every through every six months sorry every three months we have a new I have the new grading income through and I work it out for everybody. So then we have basically a grade 3 fish and great feefish is on the verge of being unsustainable.

35:05.26
Jose
So you should only use it every now and again and with a grade 3 fish. Basically we put that onto our restaurant menus because our restaurant menus basically change every week so it's a very small amount of fish that we're using for a week and then it goes and then the upgrade 4 which is unsustainable which we don't use any of those sorts of fish. Have grade 5 which is basically endangered and we don't use any of those fish either. So the main crox of what we use is grade 1 and 2 yeah and we'll alternate with grade 1 and 2 so basically on grade one let's say there's um, grade 1 and 2 there might be place and lemon sole. Yeah dabs. Um. Might be basically which soul where all of those will be a aggressive grade 1 or 2 and then we'll look at it and the guys the fishmongers will basically go on they'll they'll know which that we want a flatf fish so rather than me or their lemon sos wi'reding a flat fish for flatfish lessons and they will look at the one with the best price at the moment right? The best quality. And that fits within the reefs mit to basically our sustainability 1 or 2 and then they'll buy that fish for me send it to me. Yeah, so we're always working in Tandem. Sometimes it's a cost implication. Sometimes it's a little bit more expensive but there is a cost implication. Basically when you're working with you trying to be sustainable and basically buy that sort product. So then um.

36:15.74
philjstreet
Are.

36:20.37
Jose
We'll have that and then for the restaurants normally we work a week or 2 in advance on our restaurants. So basically the guys will come to me and say to all what's good at the moment. What's available. What's plentiful. Yeah, what's in season because I mean not lot people realize that basically your fish are in season. Yeah, they are seasons for fish at the moment I mean flatfish are full of quite a lot of row at the moment. Yeah, and they're not particularly good quality. Although. Must admit I had some phenomenal lemon soles through last week which were really really good quality. Um, so yeah as we work in tanndden with them as to what we buy and when we buy we're buying we buy a lot of frozen at sea as well. I mean lot of people. Yeah to a lot of chefs frozen at sea is a bit of a sort of like ah. Um, a bad word. Yeah I think it's frozen. There's got to be rubbish you know and and it's not like that you know frozen sea product is basically fished. Yeah basically frozen within less than sort of like half an hour an hour bit of being caught and because they are qfi frozen but on the boats. Quality of the fish is great. Yeah mean you've got these little shatter packs which you pull open and the fish fall out and as long as you basically put those into and you defrost them properly. In other words temper them with boxes of little holes that sit like that. So the the water can percolate down through to the bottom the fish stays out of the water. But quality of those fish is fantastic. There's some phenomenal fish that comes from mayor um, from Norway which is basically about that you know there some really good quality. QFfi frozen see cod and haddock. Yeah, really great for products and so we'll use a lot of that and we'll basically teach kids that yeah look at the quality and we'll we'll say to the kids. Well let's get some out.

37:53.45
Jose
Let's prep some let's cook some right and let's cook some fresh fish and let's taste it and yeah taste it and you tell us which you thinks which yeah we don't tell them and a lot of them will get it wrong. Yeah, and our customers I mean yeah, will not know we we're quite proud to put it onto the menu. Basically yeah frozen at Sea you know on that sort of sign so depending what time of year. It is depending on. Basically you the seasons are.

38:06.32
philjstreet
Are.

38:13.45
Jose
It's difficult to sort to if I was to turn around and say to yeah yeah, yeah, hake is ah is a great. Yeah I have sustainable fish and yeah, there is quite a lot hake about but at certain times of the year that will drop off you know and there won't be a lot of hake about and everybody's sort of muing around looking for hake and then you're creating a problem by basically going buying that hake? Yeah, ah yeah to give me example you getting away from fish in with with birds. Um, great partridges. We won't use great partridges at the cottage and great. Great partridges basically in this country used to be in massive numbers. Basically before the second world war and then what happened is after the second world war the government basically encouraged everybody to grow food and they encouraged the farmers to basically from great big fields to have in little fields. So for middlefields guy and Greg big fields all the way around and they grubbed out all of their their hedgerows and that's where this bird would lay its eggs would have its all these junsters. That's where it would find insects and stuff like that and there was big populations of basically Grey Partridge Phenomenal Bird yeah English Partridge absolutely fantastic but when they did all of that and they started using chemicals and Ddt and all that sort of stuff it devastated the great population population in the Uk to the point that it's never really recovered I mean now we're getting really good numbers starting to come back in but we won't use them because we do not consider it to be a sustainable option or a bird that's sustains the moment if you live in Norfolk. And you have a restaurant in Norfolk and there yeah you have birds are being shot around a corner by all means use that product because it's round a corner from you and it makes sense to use it but don't bring it here. Yeah to London if you like and then start showing everybody it and professing how fantastic it is because all you want to do is loads of other people that want it and then they create even more of a sustainability problem.

39:35.58
philjstreet
Ah.

39:46.32
philjstreet
Yeah, yeah.

39:48.65
Jose
Yeah that's what that's what we tried to do is basically educate yeah with what they shouldn't shouldn't be using not that the same with the fish I mean the fish. Yeah when I first started basically setting all of the implementing all of the sustainability on the fish at the college. Um, we had quite a lot of problems with it because there were lecturers that were used to getting what they wanted and. Not being questioned and out in the industry I could see the same thing sort of happening out in the industry. Um, but we work around that. Yeah, but people had to understand that we I'd have lecturers come to me and sort of turn around and say to me and I want to order some? um. I don't know and me think of one. Um oh on a strawry grouper for 1 over my better word. Well strawberry groupers what we all the strawberry groupers and and you say well you can't it's a sort of like an asian fish. Basically we. Don't have a lot of them coming in. It's basically sustainability levels. It's got loads of mile air miles on. It's not really something we could should be buying so we're not gonna use them now. Yeah, you have to use something else instead and then they kick up a fuss about it and if they say oh look what I only want one because I want to show my class one I said yeah but you're taking one fish. And then you're showing 16 students. How fantastic. This fish is and all of them were gonna work in different places which are all gonna go I want that and you could create 16 people that want that because you've only got one because it's it must be so rare and that's what happens with chefs in it. We. We love things that are rare. Yeah on the very few occasions. Do you find something that's rare and sustainable. You know.

41:05.50
philjstreet
If.

41:19.10
philjstreet
Yeah, rare for a reason I guess.

41:20.44
Jose
Um, so yeah, well, the only thing I've ever found actually which which which was ah was a bit funny was um, white salmon and and not a lot people ever heard about white salmon. It's also called troll salmon in America and white salmon is a um, ah a king salmon. Ah, it's a wildfish um that has lost the ability to basically process the color the the color in the food that it eats so when you fill it. It. It's actually completely white so there is no red color from the crustaceans that it's eating um and it's ah well not the first time I ever saw it I was like completely. So.

41:47.72
philjstreet
Um, right.

41:58.14
Jose
Thrown back by it because I've never seen it. It's either white or it's like marbled with this sort of like reddish color through it and when you eat it. it's quite buttery it's it's it's really fatty and it's very nice fish to eat and sort of when they come out the sea. The fishermen get paid a particular price for for King Salmon but when they're filled and they found out. They're white salmon I think it's 4 times the price. Yeah, and it's rare but you never know where you're getting one because you catch you could catch hundreds of them not have one so it's only when one turns up that it's they're very sustainable fish. But yeah, one turns up into white one. So. That's the only time i' ever come across or something that's really.

42:17.28
philjstreet
Right.

42:29.99
philjstreet
Um, right? So I I always I always learned something in your company I only we met you really once before we were lucky enough to have dinner at cyrus Toddy Wallac place and on the back of the h r c event.

42:34.10
Jose
Rare and sustainable.

42:43.60
Jose
Now.

42:49.40
philjstreet
Um, and I could have sat and listened to you all night. Talk about food generally just because there's a lot of things that I think that just even the general population probably should know but but don't know because I think a lot of times. It's more convenient just to do what you've always done right? and. Go and have go and get that and fish that you normally get from your supermarket and all of that and not know anything about where it's come from um and all of these sorts of things. Um, and um, yeah, so I mean it highlights to me that there's a greater need even beyond the education. But then. Hospitality itself. There's a greater need beyond that in the food chain.

43:30.86
Jose
I think with with students and I think I said this to you on the night when we're at Cyrus is and there's a great saying that I heard once what we and and I I I say to my students all the time and I said to being a chef.

43:37.36
philjstreet
I did have a couple of bears. But I don't know if I retained it.

43:48.94
Jose
When you get to level. Basically you start putting menus together and all that sort of stuff I said you need to have an inquiring mind. You need to want to understand what your food is I said don't be the chef just get that says I'll just give me it I'll cook it I'll make it look absolutely beautiful to play I'll make it taste fantastic and give it to the diners. No I said understand your problem. Your product understand the preparation of your product understand about how special it is respected. Yeah and then do all that other stuff as Well. That other stuff's are given you can do that but all of the background of that thing make make a make a case for your product. Um, you make the case don't have anybody else tell you the case I said Like. What you want to do is you you want to be a goat not sheep and I've I've said this to the kit and and and they sort look at you. What do you mean?? but but go and the sheep I said why? So if you've got a trader of sheep and you open the door and you let them out into the field one goes out and they all follow them even if it's they follow if they they go off the edge of a cliff. They'll all follow each other because they're sheep. And that's majority of people in supermarkets they are led by the supermarket through its advertising through its spacy bread baking at the back of the store right to you to go to buying the bread and through its basically yeah funnelling it into an area of the supermarket looks like a garden because it's all Green. We get the rest of the supermarkets are white. You know to make you feel more sort of like green and with vegetables and sort of that thing they are. They're herding you like sheep to buy stuff. But if you got a trailer full of goats and you open the door. They all go different ways. They're all independent. They do what they want to do not what the.

45:08.45
philjstreet
And yeah.

45:18.82
Jose
The status quo is doing and that's what you should do as a chef is basically you should understand as much of it as you can right? and and you know, go and ask questions go find out where it comes from go and find out why they're saying. It's so good. Yeah, understand that and and sometimes ask the questions that might hurt you know to basically yeah and and. Might find a bit offensive but you're only asking because you want to be prepared and you want to understand you want to give your customers the best and you want to be basically using the best a lot this country abroad I think in a lot of other countries people ask a lot more questions about their food and they have ah, especially in Spain italy France all those sorts of places.

45:45.38
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

45:57.24
Jose
They have a much um, closer tie to the countryside and food than we have in this country. Yeah, we don't have that tie. We become a very sort of like um technologically advanced sort living in cities basically sort of you know, really? um, away from our food and food production. Um, there's a lot of foodies in this country rightt a lot of those really understand food but there's a lot of people that I heard once in ah and a pr ah thing that I went to at a Pr ah company and I said you have 2 types of people in this country. You said you are the people that both you are interested in their food and love to eat. Really great food and then you have the people that are called refuelers that all they want to do they eat to basically stay alive. They don't care about what they eat and they're just. But and um, you know in our industry we shouldn't be that we should never ever be that sort of if if you if that's how you think and in in your job then get out of it quickly. Go do something else now.

46:39.80
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

46:43.89
philjstreet
Yeah, yeah, don't come and work with food. Yeah yeah, you know, absolutely well I mean it sounds like there is an awful lot more to your role than lecturing that like yeah I mean you you almost have to be the the font of all knowledge and I guess you equally.

46:55.50
Jose
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

47:02.49
philjstreet
That means that you can't stay still you you can't just rest on the information that you've got now because tomorrow that information could be dead.

47:09.88
Jose
Changed. Yeah, but definitely I mean I set myself right from the beginning that the thing about the college what it's allowed me to do is allowed me to basically to be that chef that understands about all different things. Um I've been on quite a lot of trips around the world I mean um with alaskan seafoods I went out to Alaska I wrote. Um. And educational guide basically for colleges on the sustainability setup of Alaskan Salmon which is a very sort of like it's all set up on a 24 hour basis whereas in this country most of our sustainability is set up on the um yeah last year's fishing quotas right? And yeah, the diversity of food that's come out of the sea so many months ago. We're in Alaska basically they saw fish today tomorrow they have a conference and look at basically all their data and they decide whether they fish the next day or not you know? and so I when I went out there. Yeah when I went out there was that is I mean that's a whole podcast by itself. That's a fantastic I mean it's just in I mean ah I went there years ago.

47:51.54
philjstreet
Right? So it can be done.

48:05.25
Jose
And even now I mean there must even be more technology advanced than I was them. But I mean it's it's incredible. What they do and to for it to remain as sustainable as it has and with they're managed to say they're managing sustainability for especially for red sockeye salmon not only for what they take. But also wildlife you know reproduction of basic fish. Yeah they're managing it on all those sorts of sides to ensure there's enough to go around for everybody and nobody's starving. Yeah, you can't go in there and basically take sort of like thousands of salmon out the sea and then basically further up the stream like you've got bears and.

48:33.96
philjstreet
Ah.

48:41.57
Jose
Yeah, wolves and and Eagles and all that sort of stuff right? The whole ecology of it that's built off the back of the salmon all diet because there's not enough salmon. Yeah, so so that was that was incredible. I mean I've been to italy ah ah parmaan parmesan I've been to Spain to basically look at barraco pork production.

48:46.54
philjstreet
Yeah.

48:57.36
philjstreet
Got sense terrible.

48:58.69
Jose
Um, and rioka region for the wines. Um I've been to quite a few places to basically look at that and to find out the background on produce which then we've used as learning tools back at the college now and we we use that as learning tools to teach our kids about it and we're very finicky about who we work with because we want to look and use the best produce. So hence, um, one of my other roles at the college is basically all the sponsorship side of the college. So We obviously we're we're producing the shit the um, the future chefs are tomorrow the guys that basically are going to be spending money with different companies and basically buying kit and buying ingredients and so what we try to do is basically sponsors.

49:27.95
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

49:37.77
Jose
Who have products that we believe in and we want to work with we use those products basically with what we do at the college basically to be able to show our kids A really good quality product. Um, so hence basically I I try to find out as much as I can about produce and all that sort of stuff and yeah I've got quite a big remit there.

49:51.45
philjstreet
Yeah God Yeah absolutely And and I think what I love about it as well is that you've kind of you've definitely transformed it from being that job that you go to to die in as as you were discussing into something that I would imagine if somebody's listening to this and they've got.

50:06.46
Jose
Um, like get people.

50:09.40
philjstreet
A bit of ah a chef background and and they're You're really really interested interested in the provenance of food. They're probably listening to this because I'm listening to this as you're talking thinking God I Want to do that. That's amazing I'm not even a chef. Um, so yeah I I think it's It's great and.

50:22.49
Jose
Um, yeah.

50:27.62
philjstreet
And equally I think that had to change because you can't you can't create classrooms full of uninspiring content. Can you I mean and and hope that you are churning out. Um the next generation of students who who give up monkeys about the industry who give a monkeys about.

50:31.75
Jose
That and. Um, yeah.

50:44.43
Jose
The the the the integrity and the quality of the of the education. The students receives is down to basically the lecturers that are there and the knowledge of the lecturers are there about sort of like six seven years ago I started a thing at the college called the trainer trainer program.

50:44.69
philjstreet
Where the food is coming from.

51:01.87
Jose
And because we were getting lots of sponsors that we were working with and I spoke to some of the sponsors and said look It's great if we take kids out on on visits for them to see products brilliant for them to understand us sort of thing but the only problem happens is that then that that cohort of kids leave and they take the knowledge with them. Ah, said what if we start taking a bunch of lectures out and basically get them to understand so giving them cpd if you like so they basically really understanding of basically the quality of different individual products or places and so that they can then put that into teaching materials. So between they can use Backer College and we've done quite a few of these trips. So basically with the seafish authority the first year we did it. We went to new line in Cornwall and we looked at um, you know, ah quote fish quotas how they worked so that we could understand it better. We looked at the market we went and visit chefs that basically cook with the products we. Um, went to understand basic sustained sustainability sustainability levels of different products. We looked at how they rebranded in cornwall the cornage pilchard to become the cornish sardine yeah and all of the health benefits and everything and how that what was what drove that now if we went to understand all that the following year. We went to Wales and we looked at aquaculture and it was basically um, ah onshore and ah, a sort of different sort of offshore aquaculture one was seeded mussels and which are taken and basically seeded in a menise rate. So we looked at that and we looked to purification and all that sort of thing.

52:27.76
Jose
And then we also looked at a sea bass farm which was in basic in angle sea which actually is not there anymore. Um, and it was offshore. So basically you looked at all the water water purification side of it. They what they were doing with the water and the effluence and all that sort of stuff and in their third year and we actually went to Norway the norwegian seafood guy who we worked very closely with and they wanted to take us out and basically look at norwegian fuel trout which was a new fish that was coming onto. Basically the market and it's quite a large trout and and they breed them in very ah, low stock densities. Um, so basically it's better farming and quality of food that they feed thems different they we looked at basically how they combat um sea ice. Um, and the way the whole farming system set up. We looked at ah cod and sustainability levels of cod because over there. There had some of the most sustainable cod in the world and looked at the ah the production of baallao. Um, out there so we went out and did all of that sort of side know I went to and a norwegian college the following year after that I think we went to Spain and we did gastronomical tour of Spain basically looking at a beco production and cheys we went up to me madrid. And we looked at wines we looked at tin produce which is basically in this country we considered tin produce to be basically a second rate product in Spain it's some of the most expensive products you can possibly buy and with good thing because we are tasting these these yeah canned fish and stuff which was that incredible. Absolutely incredible.

53:42.52
philjstreet
Um, yeah, right.

53:55.74
Jose
Um, yeah, so yeah, we we look to all of that that sort of stuff and we've done that over quite a few years we're basically taking the student. The lecture is out and through that our educational materials and our ability to speak to the students has become so bigger and better now we we will have equipment at the college. Basically a lot.

54:15.45
Jose
Yeah, sometimes way ahead of what people have got outside and a lot of the the the chefs that come into us. You know that come and do the examinations they'll come in and they'll go what what have you got? What are you doing in their butchery. You know they'll come and have a look at my smoking units and ask me how I'm using them and yeah simon young at the? Um. At the yeah, um, the rosewood hotel I mean he's he's had smokers now for quite a few years and I've done quite a few of the training stuff for basically his staff with the smokers. Um, and yeah, something that he wanted to get and he saw at my place and he went right? We're gonna use these at the the hotel and they've made some great stuff out of it. So we've. And we've got all of that sort thing water Bas and we we were using water bass way before a lot of other people using them some produceray god we be a norwegianra card we were using norwegian crowra cod before any other college in the country was using it and when Michelle Ru and Simon Holson started working Norwegian Seafoods we were already using scray cod. Yeah, and we were sort of 1 of the few bunches that we really understood the fish so that we could explain to our kids. This is what this fish is and we're lucky enough that norwegian sea foods sort of supplyray cod to us every year so that we can put it on our menus in this grey season and the kids can taste it. They can see it. They can understand about the background of it and the quality points aboutracon and sustainability. So they can then.

55:11.67
philjstreet
A.

55:27.82
Jose
As they go out into the industry if that product's still available for them. They understand the background of it. So yes, so but a lot of that is what we try to do and we try to keep head I mean a lot of the curing stuff that I do um within the the larder aging. Yeah, we never had a fridge aid jump Now we've got a fridge aging we age all our own beef.

55:30.64
philjstreet
Yeah.

55:46.38
Jose
Um, through butillar and we do English Roseveo as well. As basically yeah abde angus and herefords and and we age our full 4 ribs and our soloins and sometimes Rumpps and they go onto our menus. We do a coat the birth for 2 people basic in the main restaurant and the bray you know and all that sort of stuff the ageging process. You know. We can. Our kids can understand it because the the beef comes in they weigh it. They put a little ticket on it saying what it is and basically how much it weighs we put it in there for basically six days we take it out after six days we weigh it again. We look at the differences between the two and I explain to them. What's happening we leave it a little bit longer. Yeah they'll come out 30 days and we'll weigh it again and we'll look. We'll see that basically it's it's lost. Less weight over the last sort like 2 three weeks than it did in the first week and we explain to them. Why yeah, when make our bacon and our ham and we break down a pig before when when used to pork and used to gammon if you got a piece of gammon and kids were told you wow this is a piece of gammon. No one explains to them how a gam was put where a gammon came from. What part of the animal it was or what is a gamut. Yeah there's there's 3 stages to a piece of ham. The first one is basically the raw leg of pork. Yeah, which is a leg of pork and when you cure it it then becomes a gammon and when you cook it it then becomes a ham. Yeah, it's all the same joint but it different names as different pork.

56:59.34
philjstreet
God I didn't know that.

57:03.39
Jose
and and yeah wear belly. Where yeah, the one of the nicest lessons I do is I do a development lesson for the thirdgers and we do a pig where we break down a pig and I'll take a middle of pork out and I'll take the belly off the middle of the pork and then I'll take all the bones out show them all the bones out and then I'll cut it in half and I'll show them the end of it and they look at it and I go. See that I went oh that's streaky bacon and that's where it comes from and it's like that littleling yeah that little light that basically come down then you cut the loin in half once you've taken off the bone and you show them that I go oh my god that's back bacon and they understand then where it's come from because you're physically showingm them something. Yeah, and that's that's important and in those development lessons. We.

57:26.90
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

57:37.73
philjstreet
Ah.

57:41.45
Jose
We try to go as far back as possible. So with I do one and we're the only cottage in the Uk that has a deal larder so we have a a dear larder that can hold by see anything up to about um 9 couses of venison whole heads on feet on the lot. Yeah in there and we do about anything between sort of 20 and 30 coxes a year through that supply through our game deal and all sponsored through the game deal sponsored through Highland game. Um, and what we do is we get for each one of the third year development classes I get whole whole animal comes in its a whole here. No meet's a roadier and be head on feet on it's just crawlocked and then we'll show them a film about field to table. We'll bring this animal out. We'll explain everything from Basically why the animal was chosen different animals which would choose which ones you're going to choose to harvest would explain to them about bleeding about basically fridge temperatures or fridge protocols as by see what happens in the fridge and for how long you hold it would explain about basically skinning the animal. Taking the head off taking the feet off explain about different bits of that and then we'll break down a whole carcass. But what we'll do is. We're breaking down that carcass is you'll get them to work out the cost implications of the carcass How much did the carcass cost. How much did all different parts of that carcass cost and how much money are we making on the carcass. Yeah on a road here. Which basically a whole rode carcass will probably cost you about seventy or eighty quid we make one thousand two hundred pounds on a rode carcass. Yeah on a something like a fallow deer or a red deer. You can make anything depending on the size of the animal up to about 2 or £ 3000 yeah if you work it properly understands what you're doing with it and this.

59:09.31
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

59:13.73
Jose
But you see because chefs are great auditory and tactile learners. They understand it because you're showing them. It. You know you're putting it in front of them and you go look look. This is our all right? Yeah I understand where that big comes from now whereas before it always used to be textbooks and death by powerpoint and all that sort of stuff we would. We're getting them. Involved in showing him something. Yeah yeah, he.

59:33.12
philjstreet
Yeah but also you're given them tools for I mean to look at the situation we find ourselves in in the out in the the wide wild at the moment with cost of stuff rising and all of that you give them the skills to be able to put together something like that. You know if you're ever at the Helm. And a restaurant and you're responsible for your food costs and things like that then you know these are the things that help you win.

59:58.80
Jose
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well you like let you say I mean yeah, you always see where there's a recession going on because a chef by seal goes on to cheaper cuts and then those cheaper cuts. Although all of a sudden become very expensive cuts. Ah we up ox cheeks.

01:00:03.99
philjstreet
Yeah I remember I remember a Portrk belly Once upon a time was very cheap and not yeah yeah, yeah, lamb shanks That's another one? yeah.

01:00:15.16
Jose
Ox to another one. Yeah throw away bitter food. Yeah and all of a sudden everybody wants them kind yep another one yet.

01:00:23.95
philjstreet
But um, great. Well I mean look I could talk to you about all this for forever. In fact, but we don't have forever So I'm going to move it on because I do want to talk to you about a couple of things before I let you get on your way we have to talk about game because you you've developed. Ah.

01:00:40.70
Jose
Yep.

01:00:43.15
philjstreet
Ah, reputation for being something of a and I've been wanting to use this phrase a game master. Um, how how did that come about how did you end up was that just something that you've just you found a passion and you've just pursued it.

01:00:50.20
Jose
Ah, it.

01:00:59.76
Jose
Um, again, it was a bit of an accent I am I've always been a lover of a natural world and understand natural world and um I I found myself when I was at college drawn to books because obviously we didn't have internet back then sounds really old Isn'tney I found really old just.

01:01:16.10
philjstreet
Yeah, no I don't I remember I remember the time before internet as well.

01:01:19.75
Jose
It's not that long. Okay, it weren't that long ago kids yeah and but we have I was I always found myself drawn to books that had information about unusual meats you know and unusual ways of cooking stuff and I've always drawn to that to basically reading about it and gain. Was this thing that was very unusual but it seemed to be sort of stacking back in the middle ages. You know, but the recipes haven't really moved on and so I saw it as a bit of a sort of a challenge I mean if you take a sirlo and you cook aurna our steak as a stak as a steak but okay, yeah, you have all these different breeds of cattle you have waoo and all that sort of stuff. Which is going to be different flavors than nothing but it's still a stake but when it comes to game you have like over 17 different basic bird species in the uk and they're all different. They're all different and they all have their challenges and as a chef sometimes that's nice. You know to be challenged with something that's going to be a little bit difficult to.

01:02:03.19
philjstreet
Are.

01:02:13.75
Jose
Cook because you need to understand it better to cook it. Yeah whereas. Basically if you're told to cook a steak. You know how you know how you're gonna cook it and to the degree you're gonna cook it so that that's the sort of where it came from now I I'm also a falconer. So basically I'm I'm a a deer stalker as well I fly birds of price. So basically I have a.

01:02:31.61
philjstreet
So it's the one time we can talk about stalking without getting put in jail.

01:02:31.91
Jose
Peregrines and and goshawks and basically art. Yeah, don't go to America and tell him you're a storeker. Yeah that but doesn't go. Well yeah I um I fell into that whole. Um, but yeah I so basically I had this ah ability to take the product that I was but I'd harvested.

01:02:39.10
philjstreet
Yeah, but.

01:02:51.27
Jose
And taking all the way through to its preparation and then it's cooking and how best to show all off and the understanding of the whole thing which there were very few chefs at the time I mean um I think at a time saw Mike Robinson was doing it. Yeah who's is at buddy of mind. Basically we did quite a lot of work together. And people like that there was very few other people and yeah later on people came on board that started doing that sort of stuff. But yeah that that was how that started to happen to have an understanding and obviously because I'm spanish you know that my spanish roots basically my uncles and aunties all basically the game was quite a big thing. It's a big. Yeah real. Yeah, delicacy out in Spain lots of people basically cook it so that's why yeah I I started doing it really and then all of a sudden I did say to me once. Basically yeah, all of a sudden I had more knowledge about it than a lot of other people and I didn't really understand why I thought everybody knew the stuff that I know. Yeah.

01:03:38.62
philjstreet
Um, yeah, and boy and then you took that passion and you've you've also written some books on the matter.

01:03:43.38
Jose
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well that that was and that was basically again a bit of an accident. Everything's been that accident life. But I yeah yeah yeah.

01:03:52.80
philjstreet
Yeah, but I like that I kind of let that means that you just been I suppose alert to opportunity as opposed to having a ah grand plan as to how it's all going to end up.

01:04:02.28
Jose
Yeah, no I can't I can't do that I can't plan a head like that too much I am the books all started because I met um Phil Viy the chef not the rugby player and feel. Yeah, yeah, Phil's ah Phil loves that sort of stuff as well and he just written a book called Britain the cookbook.

01:04:11.50
philjstreet
Um, yeah, yeah, slightly different sized gentleman.

01:04:20.38
Jose
And he'd done it with a a guy who's a very very dear friend of mine now and phenomenal food. Photographer guy called Steve Lee and Steve and had worked with him on this book and they'd gone all around the Uk basically and looking at different foods from different parts of the country and telling the story of it and Steve's son wanted to be a chef so who basically he applied for westminster phil. Asked if he'd give him my number so he did and contacted me and he came into one of my game seminars that we do every year at the college so we have 2 game seminars of the college all on game. Um, and it which includes lunch one in November and 1 in January and so Steve came on to one of them and afterwards he sort said to me have you ever thought about writing a book and I said well I said have but um. Um, partially dyslexic so you know that's a problem to me. He said well this computer is nowadays you know you'd have to worry about that and you can get an editor so he and he said to me, let's let's do some stuff together see if we do so we went out and did a couple of shoots where we were basically doing he was photographing me doing stuff. And then we had this idea of putting the book together. It was the all-encompassing book on game. Um, and we called it fur and feathers. Um and pretty much after we started a couple of years in we thought said to ourselves you know if we want to do this right? We can't have it all in 1 book because it'll be about that fake. You know it's just incredible.

01:05:36.40
philjstreet
Yeah.

01:05:37.86
Jose
So what we did is we split them into books and 3 books and and we produced venison which was the first one it took 8 years to do me and Steve went out. We went through about 6 different publishers because all the publishers wanted to stifle us and what we wanted to do. We had a very set idea of what we wanted to do as an educational piece.

01:05:53.65
philjstreet
Um.

01:05:56.91
Jose
And also we wanted to be for chefs we wanted it to be for students. We wanted to be for the man on the on the ring. We didn't want to take loads of pictures of dead things right? like other people had done. We wanted to basically show that animals alive and be very respectful about it all the way we wrote it and also to come up with new ideas and also have people who believed that the product was such a good product. But they wanted to be in the book. So we had the champions of venison some very well-known chefs that are in the book as well and some of my exst students that learn about game from me you that're in there and it took it took us 8 years we finally found a publisher um merlinnum with books basicly published them and venison came out and it was. Very well received me I did it's done really well still doing really well and it's quite a big book. Yeah, it's beautiful photography I mean Steve's photography is just like nothing on this earth I mean he's brilliant. He's absolutely brilliant. A lot of the time when you're out in the field with him all you do is just forget. He's there and he will take.

01:06:40.51
philjstreet
I Love a book like that though.

01:06:52.14
Jose
The most stunning photographs and he sees stuff that you won't see food photography is a master about anyway, you know there's I don't there's anybody that basically does it as well as he does I mean he just he just loves it He's got a real passion for it. Um, and we've become very very good friends over the years very very good friends and then we finished. Venison and before we finished venison we started taking photographs and thought going out for feathers feathers took 4 years and and feathers again. Phenomenal book. You know it's it's done really well get loads of really well-known chefs I mean you got the likes of Michelle Rue Brian Turner Ben Tish um you know. andnna hiag you know loads of really well-known great chefs who are friends of mine that I've worked with over the years and I said to do you mind would you mind doing it. Yeah no problem. They've turned up at the studio and they've done their dishes you know because of that and and some great students. Some students. So us. You know they're they're really.

01:07:40.36
philjstreet
Are.

01:07:46.35
Jose
Well known now some of those students I see you know people like Ben Ben Murphy so Kazim yeah, all those sorts go will you leader all those guys are all in the book as well. So there's some really great and and it's produced really good and they've done I think it's just done the 40000 books worldwide so they've become both but bestsellers and and now.

01:07:52.12
philjstreet
God You are yeah.

01:08:05.78
Jose
We're just starting with the last one which is fur which would be rabbit hairs while bore and then we're revisiting venison in the last book. Yeah.

01:08:14.80
philjstreet
Right? sight and times that's amazing. Fantastic I do love? ah ah, sounds like a coffee table type book.

01:08:21.00
Jose
Oh is it's it's ah but I take to everybody. It's not a recipe book. It's a story book ah telling the story of game right? from beginning to the end and it's and it's it's it's remember what I said at the beginning about this thing where some people have preconceived ideas about a product. Or an ingredient and then they cut because that's what they've been told and they can't see beyond it or game can be 1 of these things that can be really really you know people argue about it a lot but the way we laid it out in the book is I tried to explain everything to everybody and I tried to explain it in terms that basically would offend nobody so that when you read the book from cover to cover.

01:08:39.74
philjstreet
Um.

01:08:53.23
Jose
It tells the story of game. It's harvest each each individual animal and then at the end of it. It explains. Basically why we do it. You know why do we manage? Deer herds why do we basically need to basically yeah, have birds. Yeah basically game birds and that sort of thing what would happen to the habitats if we didn't have them to have those habitats basically help the environment. And it's explaining it with no bullshit. It's just explanation of what it is and I say to it's not recipe book. Don't read you eat it like a book first and then use it as a recipe book because by then you will have learned all about it and the background and province of it and what games about picky.

01:09:28.46
philjstreet
Yeah, absolutely I think I I need to I'm going to end up with about 1200 coffee tables in my house I think with all the coffee table books that I yeah I have or want. But um.

01:09:33.48
Jose
And.

01:09:41.50
philjstreet
No, that's great. There is a there's another question I really wanted to ask you I don't even know if you can answer this but it just sparked my interest a little bit because you worked at the house of Commons any stories from the house of commons that you can share with us rats.

01:09:55.67
Jose
Not really I mean I um I will say it's a funny one with they all the chefs at house of Commons are quite a comical bunch and I remember once when I first started as playing tricks of the commies is always like ah a great thing and and one of the guys that basically he he shall remain nameless who was but um. Said to this Com we had a ah roasting area. So basic see within the members part of the dining room. There's the members and strangers. So the members as where all the emps eat and in the members there is an area where there's a sort cold buffet where they had sliced spokeamma and salads and all that sort stuff. And be ah, a hot 2 hot dishes on their fish and the meat which they could basic come in take and run off with it then there'd be a carving station which would be I think once a week. They'd have a carving station with a particular carved meat on it and you the comeies would have to take meat out to the carving station and also take vegetables and roast potatoes and all that sort of stuff out to the caring station. And then one of the guys I sent out there and they said to him when you go out. He said you need to bow to the mps and when you take out the food and so he went out and he he was holding onto this tray and of course an mp came out and he bowed for the mp and then he sort of he said don't and they said to him don't turn your back on the mps. So he's bowing but that as he's going through. He's gone up. You know he's he's sort like trying not to turn his back on any mps given the food over and then they told him that as he walked out, he's to bow to the m piece. He's got so he's walking out with nothing from just bowing for the m bs.

01:11:20.30
philjstreet
Of less.

01:11:22.77
Jose
And he did it about 6 or 7 times until basically everybody was just pissing themselves in the kitchen laughing and he worked out why yeah I yeah.

01:11:27.26
philjstreet
Brilliant Yeah, and well that's kind of a rites of passage Story isn't it really? I mean when once you once you can take a joke you're you're part of the team for sure and I think everybody could probably recount either when they've been the victim of such such. Ah, humor or whether they've dished it out but it is um.

01:11:47.83
Jose
Yeah, and I definitely I mean and the place itself is quite iconic. Ah I did the um I remember one of my claims to famous on the night of when Margaret Thatcher got deposed um I did the main course for Margaret Thatcher for heseline and also for John major they were all in the restaurant and at the same time.

01:12:01.92
philjstreet
Right? right? God What an opportunity that was no sorry definite different podcast for that one. Um and did you cook game right.

01:12:05.39
Jose
So that way No no, no, no no I I gott I couldn't even tell you what that I can't remember I just remember basically doing it but um, no.

01:12:19.71
philjstreet
Ah, they all lived anyway. So ah, that was good and excellent. Ah look. Thank you so much for for your time and education as I say this feels a little bit indulgent for me this one because I could just talk to you about food all day long. But um, 1 final question for I let you get on your way. What 3 reasons would you give to somebody who was thinking about coming into hospitality as to why they should come and join us.

01:12:48.20
Jose
Um I think it's a very fulfilling career and more so now than it has ever been. There are loads of facets to the to the career as well. Basically give that the weren't before I mean before yeah, you're working as a chef, you're working as a chef now. Yeah,, there's basically food styling food development. Yeah nutritional side of it I mean there's There's so many things that basically you can work with within the hospitality industry on based on food and hospitality. Um I think you meet some great people along the way you meet some fantastic mentors. That will stay with you and they'll stay through life Whole young. Basically yeah friends for the rest of your life I Also think that basically if you have a passion for it and they always say that basically the best jobs are the ones where you go to work. But you're not working.

01:13:33.50
philjstreet
A.

01:13:36.12
Jose
And basically you you just go to work every day you love it. You love what you do and therefore because you're loving what you do It's it's not ah, an effort you know and for me my job is like that you know when I worked to the commons when I worked outside in the industry every day was a learning day. You know every day was basically something new and even now everything's a learned day sometimes my students even basically. Come to me with stuff right? that I didn't know you know and I um I quizz them about it and try and learn as much as possible and then do a load of homework on it afterwards. But yeah, it's ah its no two days will ever be the same yeah in the hospitality industry. A no those two days should be the same. Yeah, you should be ah, you should be doing lots of different stuff and learning.

01:14:00.65
philjstreet
Yeah, yeah.

01:14:09.28
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

01:14:13.63
Jose
And push yourselves. Yeah within the industry. Yeah, get to places learn as much as you can move on somewhere else. Don't be afraid to move on. Yeah know, ah you can have all of the doubts like I had yeah but then take the jump. Yeah, take take take the risk and take the risk while you're still young and you haven't got mortgage. That's the yeah.

01:14:28.69
philjstreet
Yeah, for sure. Yeah brilliant.

01:14:34.11
Jose
Yeah, but it's ah it's a phenomenal industry. Yeah, and even yeah, even my part of the industry basically teaching if they can get into that I mean sometimes it's great for chefs once they've been out in the industry for a few years like some of the guys that work with us and they have been out in the industry left the industry and now come. Back to what we do and they have so much to offer to the kids. Yeah they've so much because the kids will basically look at us as we've been in there a little while and they start looking us as dinosaurs that we don't understand the industry but when you've got somebody that's fresh and come in who's just been out there. He's telling them all the same stories as I'm telling them. Yeah, things Ai n't change that much you know and basically the way we work outside um being a lecturer is basically a lot more sometimes mentally demanding than physically you know and on that whereas. Basically when you're out in the industry. It's more physically than mentally yeah and sometimes as a lecturer you need to understand and look at what the kids are doing and.

01:15:08.37
philjstreet
Um, yeah.

01:15:27.50
Jose
They take what you say as gospel absolute as gospel I mean I I did a quick one just to to finish off I did a lesson once where I right? the beginning when I first went to the college and we were doing a fish and I was showing them all different batters of fish and taking a piece of fish and 4 or 5 different batters and showing them the batters. And then they all went away to go and do their fish and do their batters to present them to me in the first year. It's a do them lesson and then quite flippantly I turned around and said to to garnish a fish you can use basically a little wedgeger lemon and certain you can also do some deep fried parsley. So the first kid comes up to me brings me the first sort of. Fish and he's got this fish and there's a fish there. Lovely it's on a doyy It's got the lemon next to it and there's this great big splodge a batter on top of it I looked it and I said what's that and he said oh it's a parsley. Well I didn't tell them not to batter it and so they batted the parsley. Yeah and this is where it is. This is why everything you say is gospel. Yeah, and if you said it they'll go and do it.

01:16:12.28
philjstreet
Um, and that.

01:16:17.20
philjstreet
Yeah.

01:16:19.00
Jose
Yeah, and then I went no no, no no you don't do that. You just deep fly the parsi and then all of a sudden there was 15 other a little feet scurried away you to go and get rid the that battered parsley. Yeah yeah, but but it's yeah I mean it. It's my job is very worthwhile and it's something that I think basic a lot of people especially chefs as I get older.

01:16:23.17
philjstreet
Get shit here.

01:16:36.55
Jose
If they've got something to give back look to go into basic teaching but teaching in the right places at some places I see they just stick to curriculum and and if you stick just to curriculum do nothing else. Um, yeah, it's It's not as as fulfillting as what we do click.

01:16:47.64
philjstreet
Yeah, well I mean you know Westminster Kingsworth the at the at the pinnacle of education as you quite rightly said at the beginning it's now down to you to keep it there.

01:16:57.21
Jose
Yeah, tip.

01:17:00.72
philjstreet
Fantastic! If if people want to reach out to you to learn more about what you do or just chew the fat about anything. What's the best method for them to do that.

01:17:08.31
Jose
And Instagram ah Facebook they can email me at the college if they want I mean on Instagram it's wild food boy on on Facebook it's wild food boy it's Jose Louis Suo and and in I'm also on Twitter it's wild food boy again and there's all stuff on there.

01:17:19.20
philjstreet
Perfect wild food boy then.

01:17:22.75
Jose
Yeah, they can they can contact me on any of those. Yeah, if they're interested in doing it if's any sponsors that basically want to look up work with us at college by all means spacey contact us on that and and yeah, great. Pretty thank you very thank you for having me on Phil yeah bye.

01:17:32.20
philjstreet
Fantastic. You're very very welcome good to chat to you take care. Cheers.